Changing herds?

[fnfarms1]

So I've always told my wife if I had my choice, I'd sell the whole herd and buy a matching set. I went to an old friends house to pick up a pup we were given after my son's heeler pup was ran over. Took me out to see their red angus herd. Wow they were so uniform you couldn't tell them apart. Outstanding group. My herd is mixed Angus, simangus, and charolois crosses that I've put together over the years. 1/3 of them are coming 10yr olds next year. I saved 14k in cash, I've got 5 replacement heifers 600ish lbs. well I started kicking around the idea to sell out and buy back a matching set. Not sure I'm that much of a gambler though, so here's my 2 scenarios. I'm really moving toward red angus, the heat tolerance and fertility I see I like. I'm not a real big "gota be black guy". My black and BWF cows stand in the pond a lot and calves walk the bank wanting milk. My herd avgs 30-35 hd, But can't just sell and buy 20hd of tip top cows. I have mortgage payments etc to make. Hadn't planned this kind of deal until place was paid off, but that's 5+ yrs off. I'm a believer in 80hd of quality will produce same $ as 100hd of junk.
#1 I've found a group of 18 - 3-6yr old red Angus cows calve spring. Plan to sell 5rep heifers and 10-12 cows plus my 14k to make it work. Would be a good building block to a red angus herd.
#2 is to buy 12 bred heifers that would continue my current mixed herd. Less cost and risk. Sell my rep heifers and savings.

Biggest risk to #1 is if my cows/rep heifers bring enough to cover the swap. Thoughts?

 

[wbvs58]

I don't see much risk involved. You already have cattle to trade in and some cash saved, you do what works, just go for it, make it happen.
Dun had a nice herd of red angus.

Ken

 

[fnfarms1]

Anybody upgrade herds like I'm thinking and seen actual financial gains? I know there's the "buy the breed of cattle I did because they X, Y, and Z". I've found a charolois herd too but it's the fertility I like from the red angus.

 

[kenny thomas]

Anybody upgrade herds like I'm thinking and seen actual financial gains? I know there's the "buy the breed of cattle I did because they X, Y, and Z". I've found a charolois herd too but it's the fertility I like from the red angus.

One thing to consider is it seems like you liked the red angus herd. What does the enjoyment add to the value.

 

[Cowman42]

Timing might be against you. Breeding cattle are stupid expensive now. I replaced my 2 old bulls in October. Thought I was making real money selling them. Went to go pick up my New yearling bulls that I had picked out and set prices on......Only to find out guy wanted nearly double what we had agreed to in August. Calves/breeders are double what they were a year or two ago here. Might be best to sell off some of your herd while prices are high and wait a while till they crash again.

 

[fnfarms1]

Timing might be against you. Breeding cattle are stupid expensive now. I replaced my 2 old bulls in October. Thought I was making real money selling them. Went to go pick up my New yearling bulls that I had picked out and set prices on......Only to find out guy wanted nearly double what we had agreed to in August. Calves/breeders are double what they were a year or two ago here. Might be best to sell off some of your herd while prices are high and wait a while till they crash again.

I would except we pay the mortgage off calf sales. So I expect to need 20-25 calves to make that depending market. Considering buying open replacements but no calf for another year. Hence the cow deal has a return in 9mths

 

[Travlr]

1/3 of them are coming 10yr olds next year.

Are these the cows you will be selling? Due to age? Or other reasons?

I'm really moving toward red angus, the heat tolerance and fertility I see I like. I'm not a real big "gota be black guy".

I'm not big on black cattle either, but paying off the place is a good top-of-the-list thing to do and black calves sell for more than mixed calves.

I made a good return on buying cows culled for age when they were 10 or more... and raising replacement heifers from them to sell back to the people I bought the culled cows from. Your older cows have proven their productivity and the fear that they will drop dead of old age in your field, or fail to breed, is largely just fear. These later years is where they really pay for their younger years and all the cows culled earlier. And it's not a bad idea to use a bull that will make your calves as uniform looking as possible and command the top prices. Unfortunately that's a homozygous black bull. Pay off the farm and then sell the whole herd when you find the right deal on a bunch of red Angus. If they are really good red Angus use a good black Lim or Sim bull on them for the sales you will get on the calves you produce. You'll have the best of both worlds, red cattle with heat tolerance, and fertility... and black calves to get the prices we all need.

Then when those red cows have proven themselves and they are ten, start artificial inseminating with good red bulls to get replacement heifers.

 

[alacowman1]

ever time I wanted to move in another direction, I did it on the the Bull side..never needed, or wanted to shut down and retool..

 

[dave_shelby]

I've toyed with the same thing. Two years back I bought four small frame 4-4.5 red Angus heifers off Craigslist from someone who wanted to get into cattle but changed their mind. One got pink eye and went crazy but the other three are dandy, raise calves as big as my ideal 1200 cows, aren't bothered by fescue and have calm disposition. I'd like to go red, and run a black Angus bull. Trouble is I have no idea where they came from and they aren't many reds around here

 

[kenny thomas]

I've toyed with the same thing. Two years back I bought four small frame 4-4.5 red Angus heifers off Craigslist from someone who wanted to get into cattle but changed their mind. One got pink eye and went crazy but the other three are dandy, raise calves as big as my ideal 1200 cows, aren't bothered by fescue and have calm disposition. I'd like to go red, and run a black Angus bull. Trouble is I have no idea where they came from and they aren't many reds around here

If you run an angus bull test for the red gene. Most breeds it will be on the papers as Homozygous or not. But not Angus.

 

[chaded]

I have pretty much done with your talking about and what I have learned is red angus are NOT inherently more fertile than anything else.

Also, some stand in the creek just like some of the black cattle I used to have did.

I got rid of a hodge podge of black angus, black baldies, red baldies, simangus, a couple I don't even know what all they were and an Angus/Holstein (awesome cow) and I bought a herd of registered red angus from one of if not the biggest red angus breeder in the state, fescue adapted, efficient, blah blah.

Half of the red angus have already punched their ticket out of here because they didn't get bred in a timely fashion the first time around and it's not looking good now for a few of the first early breeders.

If i could do it over I would of tried to find the best bull I could afford and kept replacements out of those commercial cattle I had that proved they could thrive here..

 

[dave_shelby]

I hear you chaded. The grass is always greener.. I bought in on some fescue adapted black Angus and almost all of them have been sold off. We have had drought for two years and I've sold off almost every marginal cow that doesn't handle fescue or heat. It's a mix of black and red Angus and a couple south poll crosses and Devon crosses. Breeding up good replacements is a slow process.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Buy embryos and put them in the 10 year olds - and all your others.

Or - you can pick a breed that you can upgrade and buy a good bull. Obviously, I can advise on Simmental. Buy a red Simmental, get 1/2 blood calves, breed replacements and you will have 3/4's. They will produce PB. You can go red or black. Develop a red herd and breed them to a black Simmental bull - you can register all the females and have black males to sell.

I believe the RA are better COWS right now than the BA. Mainly because the BA have been chasing the marbling gene and I do not believe I have seen any RA doing that.
If you wanted to stick to your first scenario, I would buy the bred cows.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Anybody upgrade herds like I'm thinking and seen actual financial gains? I know there's the "buy the breed of cattle I did because they X, Y, and Z". I've found a charolois herd too but it's the fertility I like from the red angus.

Is it an upgrade?
That would be the opposite direction I would head. consistencies in the calf crop are all that matter.
I would looking for a better cow that brings longevity.

 

[ClinchValley86]

There is a herd of red Angus near me. Very uniform. IMO they're the nicest cows around.

If I can catch the guy outside I'm going to stop and inquire.

 

[kdchex]

So I've always told my wife if I had my choice, I'd sell the whole herd and buy a matching set. I went to an old friends house to pick up a pup we were given after my son's heeler pup was ran over. Took me out to see their red angus herd. Wow they were so uniform you couldn't tell them apart. Outstanding group. My herd is mixed Angus, simangus, and charolois crosses that I've put together over the years. 1/3 of them are coming 10yr olds next year. I saved 14k in cash, I've got 5 replacement heifers 600ish lbs. well I started kicking around the idea to sell out and buy back a matching set. Not sure I'm that much of a gambler though, so here's my 2 scenarios. I'm really moving toward red angus, the heat tolerance and fertility I see I like. I'm not a real big "gota be black guy". My black and BWF cows stand in the pond a lot and calves walk the bank wanting milk. My herd avgs 30-35 hd, But can't just sell and buy 20hd of tip top cows. I have mortgage payments etc to make. Hadn't planned this kind of deal until place was paid off, but that's 5+ yrs off. I'm a believer in 80hd of quality will produce same $ as 100hd of junk.
#1 I've found a group of 18 - 3-6yr old red Angus cows calve spring. Plan to sell 5rep heifers and 10-12 cows plus my 14k to make it work. Would be a good building block to a red angus herd.
#2 is to buy 12 bred heifers that would continue my current mixed herd. Less cost and risk. Sell my rep heifers and savings.

Biggest risk to #1 is if my cows/rep heifers bring enough to cover the swap. Thoughts?

I started out with a mixed herd, similar to yours, heavy on Santa Gertrudis and black angus. I started focusing on culling and retaining the characteristics that I wanted. I bought registered red angus bulls and some registered heifers to start with. I found that the red angus X Santa Gertrudis outcrosses were best, even better than the registered breedings. It took a few years but I wound up with a really nice herd with the characteristics that I wanted such as temperament, milking, mothering, and fertility. And there were times when my calves caught top dollar at the sale yard.

 

[Warren Allison]

So I've always told my wife if I had my choice, I'd sell the whole herd and buy a matching set. I went to an old friends house to pick up a pup we were given after my son's heeler pup was ran over. Took me out to see their red angus herd. Wow they were so uniform you couldn't tell them apart. Outstanding group. My herd is mixed Angus, simangus, and charolois crosses that I've put together over the years. 1/3 of them are coming 10yr olds next year. I saved 14k in cash, I've got 5 replacement heifers 600ish lbs. well I started kicking around the idea to sell out and buy back a matching set. Not sure I'm that much of a gambler though, so here's my 2 scenarios. I'm really moving toward red angus, the heat tolerance and fertility I see I like. I'm not a real big "gota be black guy". My black and BWF cows stand in the pond a lot and calves walk the bank wanting milk. My herd avgs 30-35 hd, But can't just sell and buy 20hd of tip top cows. I have mortgage payments etc to make. Hadn't planned this kind of deal until place was paid off, but that's 5+ yrs off. I'm a believer in 80hd of quality will produce same $ as 100hd of junk.
#1 I've found a group of 18 - 3-6yr old red Angus cows calve spring. Plan to sell 5rep heifers and 10-12 cows plus my 14k to make it work. Would be a good building block to a red angus herd.
#2 is to buy 12 bred heifers that would continue my current mixed herd. Less cost and risk. Sell my rep heifers and savings.

Biggest risk to #1 is if my cows/rep heifers bring enough to cover the swap. Thoughts?

Go ahead now and buy ever how many red angus cows you can for the $14k. Then, whenever you sell calves, or cull cows or those 6 heifers, etc, buy more red angus with the money til you get how ever many you want. Lots of red Angus here in the southeast for sale. And, you can go all red Angus cows without having to give up money due to non-black calves at sale time. Just breed them with a homozygous for black bull. Black baldies are a very popular cross breed that bring as much per pound as solid blacks do. Some people put Angus bulls on Hereford cows to get them ( cheapest way), and some put Hereford bulls on Angus cows ( more expensive way) to get them. But I have 2 clients that are putting homo-for-black Black Hereford bulls on red Angus cows. The RA cows cost less than Angus cows, and not much more than Herefords. And the BH bulls are cheaper than Angus bulls, not much more than a red Hereford bull costs. One dude also buys red & white Braford cows as well. The other one has black Angus cows too. You can not tell the calves with red mommas from those with black mommas. The only thing is, if you wanted to keep heifers, the red angus's heifers would be hetero for black, where as the ones from the black angus would be homozygous for black.

 

[Ky hills]

No experience with red Angus but have heard good things about them, but also some negative I reckon it's like anything else good and bad.
We watched some red Angus sell as a dispersal at a cow sale last spring.
Cows were decent looking, they split some nice looking big heifers off of some of them. Biggest problem that I saw was none of the cows had ideal udders. I don't think I would have bought any of that group just in that account.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Go ahead now and buy ever how many red angus cows you can for the $14k. Then, whenever you sell calves, or cull cows or those 6 heifers, etc, buy more red angus with the money til you get how ever many you want. Lots of red Angus here in the southeast for sale. And, you can go all red Angus cows without having to give up money due to non-black calves at sale time. Just breed them with a homozygous for black bull. Black baldies are a very popular cross breed that bring as much per pound as solid blacks do. Some people put Angus bulls on Hereford cows to get them ( cheapest way), and some put Hereford bulls on Angus cows ( more expensive way) to get them. But I have 2 clients that are putting homo-for-black Black Hereford bulls on red Angus cows. The RA cows cost less than Angus cows, and not much more than Herefords. And the BH bulls are cheaper than Angus bulls, not much more than a red Hereford bull costs. One dude also buys red & white Braford cows as well. The other one has black Angus cows too. You can not tell the calves with red mommas from those with black mommas. The only thing is, if you wanted to keep heifers, the red angus's heifers would be hetero for black, where as the ones from the black angus would be homozygous for black.

There are no black Herefords that's snake oil .
The AHA doesn't recognize them.

 

[Warren Allison]

There are no black Herefords that's snake oil .
The AHA doesn't recognize them.

Nope. They are as legit as Brangus, Braford, Simmental, Charolais etc. They don't need AHA to recognize them. They have their own registry for over 35 years now, same as Brangus and Simmental does. AAA doesn't recognize Brangus, SimmAngus, Chi-Angus or Red Angus, but that doesn't make those breeds "snake oil".