Can Angus have horns?

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Here's the daddy. Not a great picture with his head in the tub, but it was the best I got. His name is No-Bull (Noble, get it?), but my friend calls him No-No! Because he's a boy and he likes to get into trouble, LOL!

Molly's daddy No-No.jpg
 
greybeard said:
Didn't Idaman talk about Titan's genetics in his long thread?


Lannie, some black shoe polish will take care of that red colored calf...
Click to expand...
Probably he and 76 and Canadian rancher and several others in the past Hereford US was another...
 
We ran straight black angus. We bought a new bull and when those calves hit the ground...white on their back legs, white on their tail, white on their bellies on some. We found out there was some Holstein in that bulls pedigree. Of course, found it out much later. We did get rid of the bull but since we are commercial Angus, we kept some of the heifer calves. Man, did they milk good. As they got older they milked too good for range cows. I remember one we kept we called 'Elk'. She was pretty sneaky, but a good cow and raised one heck of a calf. Her bag worried us though and it was big and WHITE. She never had any problems though we kept an eye on her and her calf just to make sure.
 
It was pretty comical to see black with white spotted calves being born in a distant neighbors registered angus herd. They accused all the neighbors of having a bull that got in with his cows. Put up quite a stink about it . But then all was quite and he quit talking about it . Then suddenly he has a couple belted Galloway cows apear in his registered angus herd. Suddenly they were for his son . Although prior he was pretty outspoken about not having anything but registered angus on the place. And you will still see one or two calves a year with white on them nursing on his registered angus cows .
 
To clarify a little on color & horn gene. An animal only has to inherit ONE polled gene (dominant) - from EITHER the dam or the sire, and it will be polled (Heterozygous polled - 1 horned gene + 1 polled gene). Homozygous polled - calf inherited a poll gene from BOTH parents. Poll gene is dominant. Horned gene is recessive.
Black or red gene. To be RED, a calf has to inherit a red gene (recessive) from BOTH dam & sire. Only has to inherit ONE black gene (dominant) to be black.
The black Angus breed does carry a recessive red gene in some of lines. They have always carried the red gene. Not very many any more, but it shows up now & then. The red calf cannot be registered as a black Angus - but it can be registered as a Red Angus.
True "registered" Angus are Homo Polled. Has anyone ever cheated in the registered world - well ABSOLUTELY.
The bull pictured does not look like a PB Angus - looks pretty dairy to me.
 
alacowman1 said:
Well he's black..but his poll looks suspicious from what I can tell..
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I thought he looked a little light in the caboose, too, but he's not very old. However, I kept a couple of half Angus steers for the freezer that had had meatier butts than this. In the end, it doesn't matter (ha, that turned into a pun!) because I don't care about the specific breeding.

greybeard said:
Lannie, some black shoe polish will take care of that red colored calf...
Click to expand...

I like her color! My black cows were constantly giving me heart attacks, thinking they were dead out in the pasture. The sun came out, they'd lie down to take a nap, and oh, that sun feels so good, I'll just flop out here on my side with my head flat out on the ground and see how long it takes that stoopid hooman to come running out here to see if I'm alive. Sheesh! My red/brindle cows never laid out flat like that. Plus the black ones were always tortured by hoards of flies, whereas the red ones didn't have so many. I kept them sprayed for flies, but my poor black girls just had CLOUDS of them all over, and they were always sweaty (thus the flies). So I'm glad Molly is red. Her calves need to be black so I can sell them after they're weaned, but then someone else can worry about their flies and whether they died in the pasture. ;)

faster horses said:
We ran straight black angus. We bought a new bull and when those calves hit the ground...white on their back legs, white on their tail, white on their bellies on some. We found out there was some Holstein in that bulls pedigree. Of course, found it out much later. We did get rid of the bull but since we are commercial Angus, we kept some of the heifer calves. Man, did they milk good. As they got older they milked too good for range cows. I remember one we kept we called 'Elk'. She was pretty sneaky, but a good cow and raised one heck of a calf. Her bag worried us though and it was big and WHITE. She never had any problems though we kept an eye on her and her calf just to make sure.
Click to expand...

The guy we get our hay from usually takes our Angus cross heifers and puts them in his little mutt-beef herd. He likes that they have beefy calves for him, and also a sufficient milk supply to raise a huge calf every year. My first little heifer that he took raised two calves her first lactation and FOUR on her second. He kept her and used her as a nurse cow when he needed one until she died of some malady (some kind of cancer I think he said) when she was 8. I have no facts to back this up, but I *think* that having a bit of dairy in them also makes them more likely to foster additional calves. The purebred Angus don't ever seem to, at least from what I've heard from my neighbors. When someone has an orphan calf, they ask me if I can foster it first, and if I can, I will, but if not, they have to put the calf down, because none of their cows will take a strange one.

Jeanne - Simme Valley said:
To clarify a little on color & horn gene. An animal only has to inherit ONE polled gene (dominant) - from EITHER the dam or the sire, and it will be polled (Heterozygous polled - 1 horned gene + 1 polled gene). Homozygous polled - calf inherited a poll gene from BOTH parents. Poll gene is dominant. Horned gene is recessive.
Black or red gene. To be RED, a calf has to inherit a red gene (recessive) from BOTH dam & sire. Only has to inherit ONE black gene (dominant) to be black.
The black Angus breed does carry a recessive red gene in some of lines. They have always carried the red gene. Not very many any more, but it shows up now & then. The red calf cannot be registered as a black Angus - but it can be registered as a Red Angus.
True "registered" Angus are Homo Polled. Has anyone ever cheated in the registered world - well ABSOLUTELY.
The bull pictured does not look like a PB Angus - looks pretty dairy to me.
Click to expand...

Believe it or not, in sifting through all the information provided in this thread, I had finally come to the same conclusion about the genes. I figured it out, YAY! But you wrote it up so succinctly and perfectly, thank you! :)

I found out a little more information on that bull. Supposedly he was the result of my friend's neighbor's red Angus cow and black Angus bull. The cow had her calf in a ravine, and tried to take care of him, but didn't manage to get him back home, and he wasn't found by the neighbor for two weeks, and was a bag of bones by that time. Apparently the cow didn't have much milk, and she might have been a heifer, so maybe not very experienced. He rescued the calf, but wasn't willing to bottle feed him, so he gave him to my friend, and she raised him up and kept him for breeding her cows. So, who knows what his real breeding is? Was his momma really a red Angus? Or was she a Jersey/something/cross? All we know is she was red. The neighbor thought she and the bull were both purebred Angus, so that's what he told my friend the calf was. But again, I don't much care. ;)

The way I understand it, MY neighbor's bulls are homozygous black polled, so their black polled genes will override Molly's red horned genes, and she will have nice (supposedly) 3/4 Angus black polled calves. The boys will all be steered and go for beef, so it doesn't matter, and any heifers that my hay guy wants to trade for hay, he actually likes that little bit of dairy in them, so we'll be all good. :)
 
She's going to have to settle for a horse friend for the time being. Our Arab gelding, Horus, absolutely loves his cow friends. Ever since his lady-love died many years ago, he's had only cows and calves for company, but he likes everybody, even the dogs. He shares hay with the cows (as in, they eat nose-to-nose), sleeps with them, and basically considers them family. He's been pretty sad since the last three girls went away, and I honestly thought I was going to lose him for a while, he was so depressed. He started eating again, though, and is still here, but he's going to be ecstatic to get another friend. And it IS getting close! The dates changed a little, but now we have a confirmed delivery for next Wednesday evening. Horus and I will be very happy, indeed! :giggle:
 
I'm not sure if I mentioned it before, but I'll be keeping her first heifer. Probably won't be much in the way of a milker, being 3/4 beef, but she could certainly raise a calf for me every year, and be company for her momma. So eventually, I'll have two cows again. I can't wait for the calves! :)
 

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