Can Angus have horns?

Help Support CattleToday:

L

Lannie

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Messages
406
Reaction score
807
Location
South Dakota plains
Just wondering... I thought they were all polled, and any calf from at least one Angus parent would also be polled. Is that true? I'm not good at genetics, but is there a possibility of a polled Angus bull and a horned (not Angus) cow having a horned calf? My cow was Jersey/Hereford and had horns, but we always bred her to Angus bulls and I never had a calf with horns. Closest was one bull calf that developed scurs, but never had any with actual horns. I'm confused!
 
I should have read more first. I just found an old post asking the same question, and no, they don't have horns. Ever.

So what might LOOK like a polled black Angus bull but not really be a polled black Angus bull? Something that throws calves with horns? A RED calf, by the way. Not cocoa, but red.

It's not that important, but she's going to be my next milk cow. She'll have horns, but her beaus will all be Angus, so the calves will be polled, as is normal around here. I was just curious what her breeding might be. Her mama is a Jersey, and her daddy is a "black bull," LOL!
 
I've got a few with scurs..but mine or high percentage Angus, not purebreds...shouldn't have horns..
 
Here's a copy & paste of my response in a similar thread, from 2015:
Some of the early sires in the Angus herdbook...like 'Shah'(AAA 1158, born in 1872) and 'Hanton'(AAA 80, born 1852)...had scurs... which we now know means that they were hetero polled.
Look here: http://homepage.usask.ca/~schmutz/ScurredTable.html .
But, in the intervening 150 years... I suspect that the horn gene has been bred out of existence in the breed.... and suspect that an 'Angus' bull that was shown to have the horn gene, today, would probably have his registration papers pulled.
Haven't looked recently, but I suspect (actually, I KNOW) that there are some Angus cattle out there that still have the scur gene... have seen rumors of some Angus sires that I've used siring scurred calves. It's regarded as a 'genetic defect' by AAA.
Homozygous polled will 'mask' the scur gene, so an Angus bull may carry the scur gene, but it won't be expressed in his offspring unless they inherit the horn gene from the dam.
We had a daughter of an Angus AI sire here, out of an AngusxSimAngus cow... she has scurs; she had to have inherited two copies of the scur gene - one from each parent, in order for a cow to express them. So... unless the semen in the straw was not really from the bull listed... I'd say that he's a scur gene carrier.
 
Allenw said:
Angus wasn't the only breed that overnight magic happened in.

When no one is held accountable there is no reason to stop.
Click to expand...
There is no limit of how low some people will go to get a black calf. (Simmental, Salers, Limousine, Gelbievh I would not let one on the place)
No doubt there are others and I would give them the same billing.
 
"During the frame race lots of other genetics got added into the breed. "

Did they really? I've been hearing that since the 1980s...
Things like "Pine Drive Big Sky - the most famous Amerifax bull in Angus history!", claims that B/R New Design 036 had Brown Swiss behind him, etc.
But other than the Polled Perfection deal in the Hereford breed, I've not seen conclusive proof to support those claims.

Genomic testing - which was not available in the 1980s, but certainly has been applied to some older sires by now - would have identified those 'contaminated' gene sources.
But... maybe the big-name 'movers and shakers' were able to keep it swept under the rug.
 
So her daddy MIGHT be an Angus after all? Whooooo, I'm so confused now, but it's OK. I've always heard that Angus are all polled, and all their offspring are polled, even if the other parent has horns, but you know how it goes with "I've always heard." So I wanted to ask here, from people who might actually KNOW, you know?

All I care about is whether Molly (the red yearling) has a good personality and gives me good milk. I know she has a good personality, and I'm sure she'll give me good milk. Her mama is a good producer. All Molly's calves should be polled, since we'll be breeding to "good" Angus bulls. SHE, however, has her horns, and I guess I'll leave them unless she goes postal and tries to use them on me. My girl Cricket had one horn (a dehorning paste mistake on my part 13 years ago), but she only ever used it to unlatch the gates. Or move one of the other cows out of her way. ;) But she was a good girl and never used it on me, and I think Molly will be a lot like her. :)

I hadn't mentioned it before, but I lost my lovely brindled Cricket the first of the year due to a prolapsed cervix after a stillborn (heifer) calf a month or so before. We put it back and stitched her, but it didn't hold... a month later she was prolapsing again, so we donated her meat. (It's still so hard to say "We sent her to the butcher.") The bovine love of my life, gone, just like that.

Anyway, I have to start over, and Miss Molly is going to be my new girl. I was just confused about her horns, when her daddy is supposed to be a purebred Angus. He lives there with the herd, so I'm pretty sure it was him that sired her, but maybe one or both parties jumped a fence and then went back home, you never know with cows. She'll just be my little redheaded mutt, and hopefully I'll learn to love her as much as I loved Cricket. She'll be here on March 28th, and I'm starting to finally get excited, looking forward to working with her.

I went back and looked at MM's Bessie pics again, and aside from Molly having horns, and being younger, they could be twins! :) I have a picture my friend sent me of Molly - if I can find it, I'll post it here.
 
Lucky_P said:
"During the frame race lots of other genetics got added into the breed. "

Did they really? I've been hearing that since the 1980s...
Things like "Pine Drive Big Sky - the most famous Amerifax bull in Angus history!", claims that B/R New Design 036 had Brown Swiss behind him, etc.
But other than the Polled Perfection deal in the Hereford breed, I've not seen conclusive proof to support those claims.

Genomic testing - which was not available in the 1980s, but certainly has been applied to some older sires by now - would have identified those 'contaminated' gene sources.
But... maybe the big-name 'movers and shakers' were able to keep it swept under the rug.
Click to expand...
There was a Hereford bull back in the '80's that was found to have Simmental in his background. It caused a lot of concern in Hereford breeders who used him heavily. I cannot remember the name of the bull, but it was a big name at the time.

We were going to buy a registered black Angus yearling bull private treaty until we discovered he had scurs. We passed on him, but I can't remember that bloodline either.
Heck, I'm 76, I have an excuse!!!
 
Slightly off topic here, but my Hereford bull is polled/scurred.
I've gotten horned calves from hornless cows. Polled calves from horned cows.

Now all my cows are mutts, so who knows what's going on there!


And @Lannie, My jersey, Opal has horns just about like yours there. She's all jersey tho. I will probly have her horns knocked off.
Shes probly about a yearling now!
 
Lucky_P said:
"During the frame race lots of other genetics got added into the breed. "

Did they really? I've been hearing that since the 1980s...
Things like "Pine Drive Big Sky - the most famous Amerifax bull in Angus history!", claims that B/R New Design 036 had Brown Swiss behind him, etc.
But other than the Polled Perfection deal in the Hereford breed, I've not seen conclusive proof to support those claims.

Genomic testing - which was not available in the 1980s, but certainly has been applied to some older sires by now - would have identified those 'contaminated' gene sources.
But... maybe the big-name 'movers and shakers' were able to keep it swept under the rug.
Click to expand...
There where in fact some that were caught and kicked out of the angus registry . Some weren't.
Some bulls recently entered in sell catalogs where pulled because dna didn't match sire of papers
With the advanced genetics testing why aren't 100 percent of all registered animals dna verified to both sire and dam ?
 
faster horses said:
There was a Hereford bull back in the '80's that was found to have Simmental in his background. It caused a lot of concern in Hereford breeders who used him heavily. I cannot remember the name of the bull, but it was a big name at the time.

We were going to buy a registered black Angus yearling bull private treaty until we discovered he had scurs. We passed on him, but I can't remember that bloodline either.
Heck, I'm 76, I have an excuse!!!
Click to expand...
Titan is the bull your talking about..image.jpeg
 

Similar threads

Chuckie
Angus Bulls of the Past Videos I Can Find
Replies
16
Views
660
SBMF 2015
SBMF 2015
D
American Aberdeen Angus
3 4 5
Replies
80
Views
4K
sme.misfit.farms
sme.misfit.farms
G
angus bull
Replies
13
Views
1K
clovlanfarms
C
Warren Allison
Black Simmental x Chi-Angus
Replies
4
Views
384
Warren Allison
Warren Allison
R
Which Angus bull to use ?
2 3
Replies
44
Views
2K
clovlanfarms
C

Latest posts

Top