Can Angus have horns?

Help Support CattleToday:

Last edited:
MurraysMutts said:
Sorry to hear about cricket.
Hope the new gal is a sweetheart!
Just saw the pic!
If she was out of a homo polled angus it'd be a good trick having horns.
Click to expand...

Plus her coloring. I've only had cows for 14 years, and backyard milk cows at that, but every single calf (I've lost count how many now) out of my Jersey/Hereford mamas was born black or cocoa and the cocoa ones darkened to black by the time they were a year old. Twice I had calves with a splash of white somewhere (from Cricket and Bandit's Hereford blood), but never once did I have a red one from an Angus daddy. Oh, wait, the last stillborn heifer had a little white blaze and muzzle, I almost forgot. So three calves out of maybe twenty weren't solid black. Then again, genetics are mostly a mystery to me. I know the basics, but there's still 90% I don't know on the subject, so I'm easily confused, LOL!
alacowman1 said:
They also serve as rib punchers
Click to expand...

Precisely why I use them as grab-handles. Cricket never used hers on me on purpose, but a simple head turn could make quite a large bruise if I was in the wrong place, so I learned early on to just grab on until I was past her. If I'd had my 'druthers, Molly would have been dehorned as a baby, but we'll see how things go.
 
Lucky_P said:
"During the frame race lots of other genetics got added into the breed. "

Did they really? I've been hearing that since the 1980s...
Things like "Pine Drive Big Sky - the most famous Amerifax bull in Angus history!", claims that B/R New Design 036 had Brown Swiss behind him, etc.
But other than the Polled Perfection deal in the Hereford breed, I've not seen conclusive proof to support those claims.

Genomic testing - which was not available in the 1980s, but certainly has been applied to some older sires by now - would have identified those 'contaminated' gene sources.
But... maybe the big-name 'movers and shakers' were able to keep it swept under the rug.
Click to expand...
As far as I know there have been no purity test just test to verify parentage and potential genetic defects if the registry deemed them necessary.
 
Allenw said:
As far as I know there have been no purity test just test to verify parentage and potential genetic defects if the registry deemed them necessary.
Click to expand...
Blood types were recorded and off types are there. It shows in the genetic data section of AAA or did. It was never acted on. There were horned Angus to show up in the frame race and after. The buyers of the sire or the semen had to decide to become the ones to push it or to drop it. And if you had a herd of "polled Angus", bought a bull, your calves were horned then that tells something of the base herd. So most just removed them and did not tell on others or themselves. One was a true mistake - the half Angus heifer of the nurse cow (Holstein) was sold as a registered Angus heifer. They figured it out later. But one grandson was used widely an was a top US semen seller for a period, He was a "changer": white on udders, different teats, big calves, different type...

It was not just horns. I talked with a ranch manager of a well known nationally known cattle. In asking about some bulls from the 60's, and one in particular that I use, he told the story of the ranch owner rechecking breeding records after daughters of the bull began to come into production. He knew they were different than they should be. It turns out that the bulls sire was wrong. He contacted AAA and they told him to shut up and forget about it - too much to undo and a question of the registry. It does not matter as the herd was linebred and the differences are minor in pedigree. Still good cattle.
 
With a DNA test it becomes apparent if there's something else besides Angus. When I test my commercial heifers with Zoetis, I get a report back that gives a % Angus, % British, % Continental and % Other. Other can be dairy, Brahma or Wagyu. This test wasn't available during the frame race, but it is now, and most large, registered breeders submit samples for HD50K testing.
Zoetis breed composition.png
 
Lannie said:
Plus her coloring. I've only had cows for 14 years, and backyard milk cows at that, but every single calf (I've lost count how many now) out of my Jersey/Hereford mamas was born black or cocoa and the cocoa ones darkened to black by the time they were a year old. Twice I had calves with a splash of white somewhere (from Cricket and Bandit's Hereford blood), but never once did I have a red one from an Angus daddy. Oh, wait, the last stillborn heifer had a little white blaze and muzzle, I almost forgot. So three calves out of maybe twenty weren't solid black. Then again, genetics are mostly a mystery to me. I know the basics, but there's still 90% I don't know on the subject, so I'm easily confused, LOL!


Precisely why I use them as grab-handles. Cricket never used hers on me on purpose, but a simple head turn could make quite a large bruise if I was in the wrong place, so I learned early on to just grab on until I was past her. If I'd had my 'druthers, Molly would have been dehorned as a baby, but we'll see how things go.
Click to expand...
Could it have been a red angus bull?
I suppose it's possible a red carrier- black angus...
 
MurraysMutts said:
Could it have been a red angus bull?
I suppose it's possible a red carrier- black angus...
Click to expand...

I actually asked my friend if her bull was red, but nope, he's black. I don't know enough about genetics to guess whether he might have a red gene somewhere in him (but black would be dominant, right?). And he doesn't have horns. He's got three calves on the ground so far, including Molly, and she said all three of them have horns. Of course, their mothers have horns, but it was my understanding that an Angus daddy would produce polled calves regardless of the mother, and that's what prompted me to ask in the first place. It just seemed weird to me.

I don't really care, I really need another cow, and my friend is giving Molly to me so she doesn't have to sell her to an unknown situation. She's cutting down to two cows, and Molly would be an extra, so she'll have to go. I have to pay for her shipping, so she's not "free," but she's reasonable, and my friend knows she'll be loved and cared for, and that's all that matters. ;) Having had anywhere from one to six bovines on my place at all times for the past 14 years, this business of NO COWS is quite distressing to me. I have no "chores" out in the cow barn, and I'm going nuts. How will I keep my girlish figure if I don't sling poop twice a day every day?

But seriously, all I want is a nice cow to give me milk and calves to take to the sale or trade for hay (if they're heifers), and Molly should fit the bill quite nicely. And she has red hair like me, so we'll be a perfect match. ;) I'll be able to hide behind her and still peek over the top and my husband will never see me, LOL!
 
J+ Cattle said:
With a DNA test it becomes apparent if there's something else besides Angus. When I test my commercial heifers with Zoetis, I get a report back that gives a % Angus, % British, % Continental and % Other. Other can be dairy, Brahma or Wagyu. This test wasn't available during the frame race, but it is now, and most large, registered breeders submit samples for HD50K testing.
View attachment 13429
Click to expand...
But what genetics did the use as a base? If they used post frame race genetics as a reference then they are using a contaminated sample as a base.
If the breed associations aren't even willing to mandate 100 genotype match of parents to register .
Do you really think they are going to base registration of a breed type dna test.
They would have to admit there is a problem and then the chaos of the aftermath.
So it is I see nothing,I hear nothing ,I know nothing about other breeds in the registered animals
 
Lannie said:
I actually asked my friend if her bull was red, but nope, he's black. I don't know enough about genetics to guess whether he might have a red gene somewhere in him (but black would be dominant, right?).
Click to expand...
Lannie said:
Yes, black is dominant and red is recessive. A black bovine could be homozygous for black ( can sire nothing but black) or heterazyguos ( will be black, but 1/2 of his sperm will carry the black gene and half the red), and he can sire red calves. A red bovine will carry both genes red..
Click to expand...
 
Lannie said:
I actually asked my friend if her bull was red, but nope, he's black. I don't know enough about genetics to guess whether he might have a red gene somewhere in him (but black would be dominant, right?). And he doesn't have horns. He's got three calves on the ground so far, including Molly, and she said all three of them have horns. Of course, their mothers have horns, but it was my understanding that an Angus daddy would produce polled calves regardless of the mother, and that's what prompted me to ask in the first place. It just seemed weird to me.

I don't really care, I really need another cow, and my friend is giving Molly to me so she doesn't have to sell her to an unknown situation. She's cutting down to two cows, and Molly would be an extra, so she'll have to go. I have to pay for her shipping, so she's not "free," but she's reasonable, and my friend knows she'll be loved and cared for, and that's all that matters. ;) Having had anywhere from one to six bovines on my place at all times for the past 14 years, this business of NO COWS is quite distressing to me. I have no "chores" out in the cow barn, and I'm going nuts. How will I keep my girlish figure if I don't sling poop twice a day every day?

But seriously, all I want is a nice cow to give me milk and calves to take to the sale or trade for hay (if they're heifers), and Molly should fit the bill quite nicely. And she has red hair like me, so we'll be a perfect match. ;) I'll be able to hide behind her and still peek over the top and my husband will never see me, LOL!
Click to expand...
The Black won't be dominant if the Bulls a red carrier..he could sire black calves, on clean cows but then the offspring will be a carrier ..but on black cows with red a gene he could sire about..50 percent black and reds
 
alacowman1 said:
The Black won't be dominant if the Bulls a red carrier..he could sire black calves, on clean cows but then the offspring will be a carrier ..but on black cows with red a gene he could sire about..50 percent black and reds
Click to expand...
Yes the black gene will be dominant if it is the black gene that the sperm carries. With a heterazygous black bull, or cow, half the sperm or eggs will carry black genes, which will produce black offspring. If the egg or sperm carries the red gene, and the animal they are bred to is also heterazygous for black, then that calf would be black if the other parent's egg or sperm carried the black gene. Takes a red gene from each parent to get a red calf. People have heterazyous for black "Angus" cows and bulls and are surprised when they get a red calf! But 25% of the potential claves will be red. Another 25% will be homozygous black and 50% will be heterazygous black.
 
Thanks, you guys, I actually think I understood those last several posts! And I'm only on my third cup of coffee! At least now I know it COULD be possible, and HOW it could happen. One mystery solved! Several million to go... ;)
 

Similar threads

Chuckie
Angus Bulls of the Past Videos I Can Find
Replies
16
Views
640
SBMF 2015
SBMF 2015
D
American Aberdeen Angus
3 4 5
Replies
80
Views
4K
sme.misfit.farms
sme.misfit.farms
G
angus bull
Replies
13
Views
1K
clovlanfarms
C
Warren Allison
Black Simmental x Chi-Angus
Replies
4
Views
375
Warren Allison
Warren Allison
R
Which Angus bull to use ?
2 3
Replies
44
Views
2K
clovlanfarms
C

Latest posts

Top