Bull tests

[S.R.R.]

I asked this on another post but thought it presents an interesting question on its own. I have seen as I am sure many of you have a large number of bulls come out of a feed test round and fat as a butter ball now what good is it that a bull is a great gainer during a feed test if a lot of what he is putting on is fat? Are thoses truly the kind of genetics we want in our cattle? I feel that after a feed test not the bull that had the best ADG but the bull that had the best average muscle gain would be the better bull.

 

[Frankie]

I asked this on another post but thought it presents an interesting question on its own. I have seen as I am sure many of you have a large number of bulls come out of a feed test round and fat as a butter ball now what good is it that a bull is a great gainer during a feed test if a lot of what he is putting on is fat? Are thoses truly the kind of genetics we want in our cattle? I feel that after a feed test not the bull that had the best ADG but the bull that had the best average muscle gain would be the better bull.

How would you measure the "muscle gain"? Tests have to be based on something measurable. Our bull test (a gain test) is based on recommendations of the BIF. It uses ADG and YW ratios to identify the "top" bull of the test. The most expensive time in a calf's life is the time it spends in the feedlot. The ability to gain quickly is as important as any trait. The last few years, though, bull buyers have started looking at more than just that trait. Today they're also looking at IMF, fat, $Beef EPDs, etc.

 

[Daybreak]

Howdy,

Fat and a butterball? That does not sound like a gain test. You might want to check with your extension office and talk to the ones which operate your state bull test. Remember that the ultrasound is done, and its not fat. It is genetic expression. Wouldn't you want the herd sire which passes those traits on. So you calf crop grows large and with good muscle, form, structure and most importantly feed conversion. Tenderness gene, fertility etc..

Here is a link to a well known Bull Test in the United States.
http://www.midlandbulltest.com/pages/program.html

 

[Aero]

and for many producers, they dont care what the steers put on as long as it is weight. they get paid by the pound and have no idea how their animals cut out (and dont care).

 

[S.R.R.]

and for many producers, they dont care what the steers put on as long as it is weight. they get paid by the pound and have no idea how their animals cut out (and dont care).

:nod: :nod: Aero now there is an honest and sad but true statement!

 

[john250]

I asked this on another post but thought it presents an interesting question on its own. I have seen as I am sure many of you have a large number of bulls come out of a feed test round and fat as a butter ball now what good is it that a bull is a great gainer during a feed test if a lot of what he is putting on is fat? Are thoses truly the kind of genetics we want in our cattle? I feel that after a feed test not the bull that had the best ADG but the bull that had the best average muscle gain would be the better bull.

I buy yearling bulls at the Indiana test station from time to time. They will sell 100+ bulls at a sale, and 1250 lb to 1450 lb is the weight range. I don't consider them fat at that weight. A young bull should be a growin' machine. I like to see 4 lb/gain/day. My customers (feedlots) like to see that, too.
The test station offers more data than a slow witted boy like me can absorb. EPD's for several traits. And an index rating, which while it is flawed by nature is usefull for eliminating some choices.

 

[S.R.R.]

I asked this on another post but thought it presents an interesting question on its own. I have seen as I am sure many of you have a large number of bulls come out of a feed test round and fat as a butter ball now what good is it that a bull is a great gainer during a feed test if a lot of what he is putting on is fat? Are thoses truly the kind of genetics we want in our cattle? I feel that after a feed test not the bull that had the best ADG but the bull that had the best average muscle gain would be the better bull.

How would you measure the "muscle gain"? Tests have to be based on something measurable. Our bull test (a gain test) is based on recommendations of the BIF. It uses ADG and YW ratios to identify the "top" bull of the test. The most expensive time in a calf's life is the time it spends in the feedlot. The ability to gain quickly is as important as any trait. The last few years, though, bull buyers have started looking at more than just that trait. Today they're also looking at IMF, fat, $Beef EPDs, etc.

Yes I guess my statement "I feel that after a feed test not the bull that had the best ADG but the bull that had the best average muscle gain would be the better bull" is just wishful thinking until they can find a cheap and easy way to do it.

 

[KNERSIE]

I may be ignorant about the situation in the US, but here in SA Feed convertion rate carries a lot more weight than ADG.

The two downsides I see about feedlot type testing (over here its called a Phase C test) is 1: the cost and 2: feeding the young bull a high energy diet can cause fat deposits in the neck of the scrotum which seriously hampers sperm quality especially in hot climates. Over here the young bull (between 6.5 and 8.5 months old) goes to a test station and after a 14 day adaption period goes on the test for 84 days during which his feed intake is monitored electronically. After the completion they get classified according to their merit and get branded on the left shoulder to indicate this. after that they go through the breed isnpectors before their status goes from calfbook registered to fully registered.

We also have a Phase D test on the farm where you can enter a minimum of 10 bulls and you can feed them according to your needs at a rate of gain suitable for you situation. at the beginning of the test and at the completion of the the ARC official comes to the farm and measure all the bulls for frame score, body lenght, scrotum circumference and ultrasound them for RE. The rest being the same as above.

 

[MikeC]

Commercial cattlemen are complete fools to not buy the bulls from a recognized bull test whether it be grain or forage.

Since the cost has become prohibitive to feed all their bulls in a test, the seedstock producers pick the "Best of the Best" to enter in tests. No one knows a breeders bulls better than the man that raised them.

Most all bull tests include ultrasound which will tell you which ones are "Butterballs" and which ones are muscular.

Our bull tests examine for almost every disease and sickness known to man or beast and you are assured of healthy animals.
Those that bloat more than once are sent home to assure you they not are experiencing laminitis or rumenitis, among many others. Proper vacs and tests are normally done better than "On Farm" bulls.

Contrary to popular belief, bulls fed for 84-112 days are no more prone to problems in the pasture afterwards than those that are not. Bulls don't forget how to graze.... :lol: :lol:

Auburn Univ. has done a longevity study on bulls that came out of tests and show that they are more fertile and last longer than their weaning co-horts.

Had you rather have a bull that was allowed to express his genetic merit/potential, or one that has not? If your answer is no......you really don't have an idea what you are buying.

Even an "On-Farm" test is better than nothing..................

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

I may be ignorant about the situation in the US, but here in SA Feed convertion rate carries a lot more weight than ADG.

Hallelujah! However I know why many rely on the ADG, and thats because its tough to individually monitor each bulls feed intake (on ranch anyway). Forage developed bulls are even tougher. So as long as every bull has had access to the same feed, the theory is that the bull with the highest ADG is the one with the best feed conversion. Obviously, this is a flawed line of thought, however, how does one gauge feed consumption with forage developed bulls? As far as I know, there aren't any kind of spiffy meters available for forage, like there is for grain.

Rod

 

[S.R.R.]

Since the cost has become prohibitive to feed all their bulls in a test, the seedstock producers pick the "Best of the Best" to enter in tests. No one knows a breeders bulls better than the man that raised them.

Most all bull tests include ultrasound which will tell you which ones are "Butterballs" and which ones are muscular.
.

Two good points Mike. I would like to see the ultrasound data on Daybreaks New Level Bull tag #52!