Black Baldy Question

[Muddy]

Yes, you can get a homozygous black Black Hereford.

If you want to make sure you are getting a homozygous black, just make sure he's been coat color tested, or see if he's out of tested homozygous black parents.

Don't forget about you need homozygous white face to have an uniformed crop of black baldies. There are black Hereford bulls that will throws solid calves if they bred to solid colored cows.

 

[Davemk]

" I think those three beef breeds are the least related to start with"

it's a great 3 way cross---but hardly the least related.

angus/Hereford from british isles--think first cousins.

charolais from the continent---think second cousins.

Africa, india cattle---think 3rd cousins

but unless you're looking for heat/tick etc resistance---most distant not necessarily best.

we run mostly black baldies, have started assembling easier calving charlolais bulsto use next yr

learned long ago to NEVER keep a % charolais heifer to breed---no matter how good she looks. strictly terminal cross for us--and no heifer feeds as much like a steer as charolais

http://www.nbcec.org/topics/BeefBreeds.pdf


If you read that report, Hereford and Angus are the most distinct, nowhere near first cousins. Any of the Continental breeds are closely related.

 

[cfpinz]

There are a lot of guys that are using crossbred bulls on purebred cows. So, no the crossbred bulls
are not stealing your heterosis in every case.

Bullsh*t.

The heterosis you pick up from the first cross is more powerful than any of the diluted followers. Been there, done that.

 

[Jake]

There are a lot of guys that are using crossbred bulls on purebred cows. So, no the crossbred bulls
are not stealing your heterosis in every case.

Bullsh*t.

The heterosis you pick up from the first cross is more powerful than any of the diluted followers. Been there, done that.

:clap:

By definition a crossbred bull is stealing heterosis.

 

[Davemk]

3 way crosses provide max heterosis.

 

[Jake]

3 way crosses provide max heterosis.

Only when the f1 is the female

 

[KR Cattle Co]

Holy cow! Why get so worked up over using crossbred Bulls. Find what works for your herd and go with it. My herd is mostly Balancer cattle. A lot are registered. We ran 4 balancer Bulls this year and will add a 5th next year. Calves this past spring were born over 67 days with the youngest being 5 months at weaning. They averaged 607 pounds when worked 1 week after weaning. No creep feed. Sold them at 40 days weaned and they were all at the top of the market. Do all Balancer Bulls work out? NO! Do all Angus work out? NO! I do think the average commercial herd can get far too much of any 1 breed or too many different breeds in them. Once either of those happen, ground is lost. Not preaching Gelbvieh, but Gelbvieh has been tracking EPD's on the Balancer for many years. My Balancers have EPD's that are enhanced by DNA testing. 4 of the 5 Bulls next spring will be home grown. Simmental seems to have a good handle on the SIMM-Angus. I am not sure there are enough Black Herfords out there yet to know how they will work. I personally will be adding a Herford bull soon. Gelbvieh X Herford, what a cross! I am not happy with the Angus association at present due to their genetic defect of the month club and bad feet.

 

[LongLopeSlowHorse]

What were your reasons for no char heifers?

Just not that maternal, not productive for the size cow we were maintaining.

 

[Davemk]

Holy cow! Why get so worked up over using crossbred Bulls. Find what works for your herd and go with it. My herd is mostly Balancer cattle. A lot are registered. We ran 4 balancer Bulls this year and will add a 5th next year. Calves this past spring were born over 67 days with the youngest being 5 months at weaning. They averaged 607 pounds when worked 1 week after weaning. No creep feed. Sold them at 40 days weaned and they were all at the top of the market. Do all Balancer Bulls work out? NO! Do all Angus work out? NO! I do think the average commercial herd can get far too much of any 1 breed or too many different breeds in them. Once either of those happen, ground is lost. Not preaching Gelbvieh, but Gelbvieh has been tracking EPD's on the Balancer for many years. My Balancers have EPD's that are enhanced by DNA testing. 4 of the 5 Bulls next spring will be home grown. Simmental seems to have a good handle on the SIMM-Angus. I am not sure there are enough Black Herfords out there yet to know how they will work. I personally will be adding a Herford bull soon. Gelbvieh X Herford, what a cross! I am not happy with the Angus association at present due to their genetic defect of the month club and bad feet.

KR

I am not worked up and I hope nobody else is either. I love these conversations. There are people here that have forgotten more about cattle than I will ever know.

 

[KR Cattle Co]

Holy cow! Why get so worked up over using crossbred Bulls. Find what works for your herd and go with it. My herd is mostly Balancer cattle. A lot are registered. We ran 4 balancer Bulls this year and will add a 5th next year. Calves this past spring were born over 67 days with the youngest being 5 months at weaning. They averaged 607 pounds when worked 1 week after weaning. No creep feed. Sold them at 40 days weaned and they were all at the top of the market. Do all Balancer Bulls work out? NO! Do all Angus work out? NO! I do think the average commercial herd can get far too much of any 1 breed or too many different breeds in them. Once either of those happen, ground is lost. Not preaching Gelbvieh, but Gelbvieh has been tracking EPD's on the Balancer for many years. My Balancers have EPD's that are enhanced by DNA testing. 4 of the 5 Bulls next spring will be home grown. Simmental seems to have a good handle on the SIMM-Angus. I am not sure there are enough Black Herfords out there yet to know how they will work. I personally will be adding a Herford bull soon. Gelbvieh X Herford, what a cross! I am not happy with the Angus association at present due to their genetic defect of the month club and bad feet.

KR

I am not worked up and I hope nobody else is either. I love these conversations. There are people here that have forgotten more about cattle than I will ever know.

Was not directed at you. I agreed with you. Thought the BS call was a bit over the top. I agree there are people here that have a lot to share, but others sometimes seem to think their way is the only way.

 

[WalnutCrest]

Max heterosis = Europe x. India x. Africa

 

[Jake]

Max heterosis = Europe x. India x. Africa

Probably true. Also creates the most unmarketable animal out there

 

[WalnutCrest]

Max heterosis = Europe x. India x. Africa

Probably true. Also creates the most unmarketable animal out there

1 - I disagree with that blanket statement. If narrowed to marketed via traditional channels, then sure. Private treaty? Nope ... a decent market exists.

2 - the discussion had been focused on max heterosis and I wanted to clear something up... herf x angus x ear < british x contintal x (ear or Africa) < Europe x India x Africa

 

[Muddy]

Max heterosis = Europe x. India x. Africa

Probably true. Also creates the most unmarketable animal out there

:nod: Probably for the bucking bull stock.

 

[Jake]

Max heterosis = Europe x. India x. Africa

Probably true. Also creates the most unmarketable animal out there

1 - I disagree with that blanket statement. If narrowed to marketed via traditional channels, then sure. Private treaty? Nope ... a decent market exists.

2 - the discussion had been focused on max heterosis and I wanted to clear something up... herf x angus x ear < british x contintal x (ear or Africa) < Europe x India x Africa

I will stand by my statement. Just because 10 guys in the country could find enough suckers to buy 50 head. Doesn't make them a marketable animal.

 

[WalnutCrest]

Marketable animal means what?

Something that fools an order buyer?

If you want a marketable animal for the "I love black cattle" crowd, I think someone would be well served to get a F1 cow as unrelated as reasonably possible to the black breed of your choosing that you want to use for your terminal sires. Or, maybe a cow that is a first generation of a three way cross.

Think ... for a black calf ... to have cow that is 1/4 continental, 1/4 african, 1/2 Indian ... and bred to a nice Angus bull ... you'd get polled black calves out of hardy, maternal mamas.

 

[goddy]

Marketable animal means what?

Something that fools an order buyer?

If you want a marketable animal for the "I love black cattle" crowd, I think someone would be well served to get a F1 cow as unrelated as reasonably possible to the black breed of your choosing that you want to use for your terminal sires. Or, maybe a cow that is a first generation of a three way cross.

Think ... for a black calf ... to have cow that is 1/4 continental, 1/4 african, 1/2 Indian ... and bred to a nice Angus bull ... you'd get polled black calves out of hardy, maternal mamas.

There you go again - thinking outside the box. You know that doesn't sit well with a lot of folks

 

[Muddy]

Marketable animal means what?

Something that fools an order buyer?

If you want a marketable animal for the "I love black cattle" crowd, I think someone would be well served to get a F1 cow as unrelated as reasonably possible to the black breed of your choosing that you want to use for your terminal sires. Or, maybe a cow that is a first generation of a three way cross.

Think ... for a black calf ... to have cow that is 1/4 continental, 1/4 african, 1/2 Indian ... and bred to a nice Angus bull ... you'd get polled black calves out of hardy, maternal mamas.

:lol2: yeah it won't fool the buyers with that.

 

[WalnutCrest]

A friend bred his red Mashona bull to commercial longhorn cows and the guy from a feed yard came out and asked a few questions. Add I remember it, the first and second questions were "where are the red angus mamas" ... and after he said "they're not out of red angus cows" the guy then asked "which red angus bull was used?"

My friend told him the truth ... Mashona sired out of longhorn cows ... and got a nice price for the calves.

But, you're right, those aren't marketable animals.

 

[cfpinz]

Was not directed at you. I agreed with you. Thought the BS call was a bit over the top. I agree there are people here that have a lot to share, but others sometimes seem to think their way is the only way.

Not worked up, just tired of hearing the BS from all of the collegiate cowboys and Progressive Farmer devotees.

95% of bull buyers today would be lost without EPD's and $xxx values, the Cow Colleges have created the biggest bunch of educated idiots out there and bull sellers are simply catering to the wants of those. It's quite funny, actually.