Black Baldy Question

[Black an Gus]

I have a herd of purebred Angus cows, mostly black and a few reds as well. I put a Hereford bull on them last year and ended up with some nice black baldies I desired but rwf calves on the red cows (obviously) and two of the blacks. I know both sire and damn have to be red gene carriers for the offspring to be red, what I don't understand is how homozygous black bulls are made. This may seem like a stupid question but are there such thing as homozygous black Black Hereford bulls? I'm just trying to figure out a way to raise a uniform black calf crop.

 

[dun]

The "black Herefords" are a creation from selecting strictly for color from breeding multiple generations of black baldies

 

[City Guy]

You will never get repeatable uniformity by cross breeding. Stick with the Angus if you want all black...the work is already done for you.

 

[cbcr]

You will never get repeatable uniformity by cross breeding. Stick with the Angus if you want all black...the work is already done for you.

Using Crossbred sires simplifies crossbreeding. If you want to use a crossbred bull, (SimAngus, Balancer, LimFlex, Maintainer, Brangus, Charolais Black Equalizer, etc), figure what you feel is an optimal proportion of the breed mix for your herd. You can keep it that way by using crossbred bulls

As an example if you use a SimAngus bull and then keep back heifers, use a SimAngus bull on those heifers to maintain the desired proportion of each breed. This results in higher uniformity than if you rotate back and forth between purebred sires!

The interest and increased use of hybrid bulls the last several years is due to the fact that many cowherds have become less crossbred. When producers use a crossbred or composite bull, heterosis can be restored in a much more simple way than using elaborate rotational crossbreeding systems.

But as with any breeding program, sire selection is very important no matter if you are using straightbred, crossbred or composite bulls.

 

[Jake]

You will never get repeatable uniformity by cross breeding. Stick with the Angus if you want all black...the work is already done for you.

Using Crossbred sires simplifies crossbreeding. If you want to use a crossbred bull, (SimAngus, Balancer, LimFlex, Maintainer, Brangus, Charolais Black Equalizer, etc), figure what you feel is an optimal proportion of the breed mix for your herd. You can keep it that way by using crossbred bulls

As an example if you use a SimAngus bull and then keep back heifers, use a SimAngus bull on those heifers to maintain the desired proportion of each breed. This results in higher uniformity than if you rotate back and forth between purebred sires!

The interest and increased use of hybrid bulls the last several years is due to the fact that many cowherds have become less crossbred. When producers use a crossbred or composite bull, heterosis can be restored in a much more simple way than using elaborate rotational crossbreeding systems.

But as with any breeding program, sire selection is very important no matter if you are using straightbred, crossbred or composite bulls.

I've always seen crossbred bulls as the seedstock guy stealing the commercial man's heterosis.

 

[mrvictordomino]

:nod:

You will never get repeatable uniformity by cross breeding. Stick with the Angus if you want all black...the work is already done for you.

Using Crossbred sires simplifies crossbreeding. If you want to use a crossbred bull, (SimAngus, Balancer, LimFlex, Maintainer, Brangus, Charolais Black Equalizer, etc), figure what you feel is an optimal proportion of the breed mix for your herd. You can keep it that way by using crossbred bulls

As an example if you use a SimAngus bull and then keep back heifers, use a SimAngus bull on those heifers to maintain the desired proportion of each breed. This results in higher uniformity than if you rotate back and forth between purebred sires!

The interest and increased use of hybrid bulls the last several years is due to the fact that many cowherds have become less crossbred. When producers use a crossbred or composite bull, heterosis can be restored in a much more simple way than using elaborate rotational crossbreeding systems.

But as with any breeding program, sire selection is very important no matter if you are using straightbred, crossbred or composite bulls.

I've always seen crossbred bulls as the seedstock guy stealing the commercial man's heterosis.

:nod:

 

[cfpinz]

You will never get repeatable uniformity by cross breeding. Stick with the Angus if you want all black...the work is already done for you.

Using Crossbred sires simplifies crossbreeding. If you want to use a crossbred bull, (SimAngus, Balancer, LimFlex, Maintainer, Brangus, Charolais Black Equalizer, etc), figure what you feel is an optimal proportion of the breed mix for your herd. You can keep it that way by using crossbred bulls

As an example if you use a SimAngus bull and then keep back heifers, use a SimAngus bull on those heifers to maintain the desired proportion of each breed. This results in higher uniformity than if you rotate back and forth between purebred sires!

The interest and increased use of hybrid bulls the last several years is due to the fact that many cowherds have become less crossbred. When producers use a crossbred or composite bull, heterosis can be restored in a much more simple way than using elaborate rotational crossbreeding systems.

But as with any breeding program, sire selection is very important no matter if you are using straightbred, crossbred or composite bulls.

I've always seen crossbred bulls as the seedstock guy stealing the commercial man's heterosis.

Nailed it.

And folks wonder why their calves lack the "pop" of their crossbred bulls...

 

[Jessica06]

Yes, you can get a homozygous black Black Hereford. The red gene is recessive to Black. It's impossible to tell if they aren't DNA tested, since the black hides the red. If you took two animals that were black, but carried red, and bred them together, theoretically you would have a 25% chance of having a homozygous black, 50% chance of getting a heterozygous black (black but hiding a red), and a 25% chance of getting a homozygous red.

Black - A
Red - a

Homo. black - AA
Hetero. black - Aa
Homo. red - aa

Aa x Aa = 25% AA, 50% Aa, 25% aa

If you want to make sure you are getting a homozygous black, just make sure he's been coat color tested, or see if he's out of tested homozygous black parents.

 

[Davemk]

There are a lot of guys that are using crossbred bulls on purebred cows. So, no the crossbred bulls
are not stealing your heterosis in every case. If you have a herd of mixed up commercial cows then you should be running a bull that is line bred for max heterosis and uniformity among your calves. Of course you can still get good calves from a bull that is not line bred, you will never reach max uniformity or heterosis.

 

[City Guy]

Sorry Davemk but I don't understand, will you say it in simple terms I might understand? "Line bred for maximum heterosis"--isn't that an oxymoron?

 

[wbvs58]

Well put Jake.

Ken

 

[Jake]

Sorry Davemk but I don't understand, will you say it in simple terms I might understand? "Line bred for maximum heterosis"--isn't that an oxymoron?

No, crossing two highly related, preponent lines will result in the highest level of heterosis because they will have the highest level of homozygous traits.

 

[City Guy]

I think it is a grammar think. Let me reword Davemk's sentence and see if it makes sense to all of us. If one wants to achieve maximum heterosis in the calves of a mixed up commercial cow herd one should use a line bred bull. If that is what he meant, I certainly agree.

 

[Davemk]

Reading is essential. Go back and read it again.


"If you have a herd of mixed up commercial cows then you should be running a bull that is line bred, for max heterosis and uniformity among your calves"

 

[Davemk]

Reading is essential. Go back and read it again.


"If you have a herd of mixed up commercial cows then you should be running a bull that is line bred, for max heterosis and uniformity among your calves"

 

[Davemk]

crossing two unrelated homozygous(linebred) animals, then crossing a third nonrelated homozygous animal with the offspring of the original mating will provide maximum heterosis in cattle. Chew on that one for a while city guy.

 

[Davemk]

never mind. Had a long genetics post and lost it. Not typing it again.

 

[Davemk]

crossing two unrelated homozygous(linebred) animals, then crossing a third nonrelated homozygous animal with the offspring of the original mating will provide maximum heterosis in cattle. Chew on that one for a while city guy.

example. line bred Hereford x line bred Angus offspring x Line bred Charolais. That 3 way cross would be close to the maximum achievable heterosis in beef cattle. I think those three beef breeds are the least related to start with.

 

[LongLopeSlowHorse]

" I think those three beef breeds are the least related to start with"

it's a great 3 way cross---but hardly the least related.

angus/Hereford from british isles--think first cousins.

charolais from the continent---think second cousins.

Africa, india cattle---think 3rd cousins

but unless you're looking for heat/tick etc resistance---most distant not necessarily best.

we run mostly black baldies, have started assembling easier calving charlolais bulsto use next yr

learned long ago to NEVER keep a % charolais heifer to breed---no matter how good she looks. strictly terminal cross for us--and no heifer feeds as much like a steer as charolais

 

[Supa Dexta]

What were your reasons for no char heifers?