Ky hills
Well-known member
AI may work for some, but I've always had to run a cleanup bull anyway. so It makes no sense to me to waste the money and effort, on AI when keeping up a bull as well.
Best Cattle Crosses For Unassisted Calving
- Thread starter rocfarm
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It was more expensive for sure when I looked in to it for the avg cow calf producer. Still cheaper to have the bull on hand.
rocfarm
Well-known member
Think I'll leave this one for another day
.KAstocker
Well-known member
Keeping your own replacements doesn't pencil for a small herd, or much else for a small herd.
Nesikep
Well-known member
Yeah, either the family has to be proven or the cow should be. I kept a heifer from a heifer, grandma was 8, the 3 generations prior all got to 12+ years old, She's done good so far.. I'm waiting for her to have a heifer, she's had 2 nice steers so far
With the size of my herd I can't have special purpose bulls, I'd rather have to assist one here or there than lose production on everyone
why wouldn't it? All depends on your feed costs, size of herd doesn't matter too much
Unless you're paying a premium for premium heifers, you'll always take quite a gamble buying run-of-the-mill bred heifers, probably not much history on them.
Ky hills
Well-known member
Paying a premium for heifers, both commercial or purebred as about as much of a gamble as buying better end market priced ones through the stockyards. I'm talking about buying open heifers, I would not buy bred heifers through a regular stock sale. No idea anything about them or what they are bred to.
We've bought a lot of 400-500 lb heifers through the stockyards to winter and breed in the spring. Sold most, but have kept several over the years too.
We culled them if they did not pelvic measure to 150 cm and later on the sale that we sold in upped it to 160 cm.
We bred them to CE Angus bulls,
I tried to be real selective and only buy the type of calves I thought would grow out and make a good looking cow.
I've heard from several customers that over all the heifers have done well, with only a few exceptions over time. That has been my experience too. Even under the best of circumstances and results some heifers or cows for that matter will have some kind of serious issue and price paid and or reputation behind them is irrelevant at that point.
The worst I have ever done with buying heifers is buying registered ones both Angus and Herefords from area annual production or consignment sales. I had a much lower success rate with those than I ever have had with buying good open commercial heifers through the stockyards.
Those kind of production and consignment registered sales are usually a cesspool of culls, at least the ones around here that I have gone to.
We've bought a lot of 400-500 lb heifers through the stockyards to winter and breed in the spring. Sold most, but have kept several over the years too.
We culled them if they did not pelvic measure to 150 cm and later on the sale that we sold in upped it to 160 cm.
We bred them to CE Angus bulls,
I tried to be real selective and only buy the type of calves I thought would grow out and make a good looking cow.
I've heard from several customers that over all the heifers have done well, with only a few exceptions over time. That has been my experience too. Even under the best of circumstances and results some heifers or cows for that matter will have some kind of serious issue and price paid and or reputation behind them is irrelevant at that point.
The worst I have ever done with buying heifers is buying registered ones both Angus and Herefords from area annual production or consignment sales. I had a much lower success rate with those than I ever have had with buying good open commercial heifers through the stockyards.
Those kind of production and consignment registered sales are usually a cesspool of culls, at least the ones around here that I have gone to.
rocfarm
Well-known member
Agree, but my stocking rate is 60% of what it can handle in a normal year, and my situation is quite unique. If I have more time to go to the auction, might switch to buying breds.
rocfarm
Well-known member
Good info. Thanks.
KAstocker
Well-known member
If you're able to put them with the rest of your cows and use the same bull for them, it would help a little. Potentially managing a cow group, a separate 2-3 year old heifer group, and a replacement heifer group is a lot. Especially for a herd of less than 10, like @rocfarm currently has. I think it's a lot for a herd of less than 60.
I think economy of scale makes a big difference. Instead of growing yearling heifers, those could be replaced with more cows, giving you more calves, giving more economy of scale. Around here, the more you can do to give you bigger groups to sell, the better. You could also use high growth terminal bulls to add pounds at sale time since you don't have to keep replacements. My freight for a trailer to get to the sale is over $200. Spreading that over 10 calves vs 6 calves at sale day helps a lot. A full trailer would be better. Also, the small number of 900 lb heifers that don't breed, they won't sell worth a darn as a very small group of too heavy feeder heifers. And that's an expensive freight bill.
Good for you if you can find a way around these issues. You do seem to have nice cows, which sounds like comes from keeping replacements. I was speaking for the normal producer selling at a conventional market.
But I can't say too much about cows. I don't have cows. I just do stockers, to give me more economy of scale.
More numbers do not always mean more money on the cow side.
Got to keep those costs low and consistent long term.
Got to keep those costs low and consistent long term.
Dave
Well-known member
The years I bought a bunch of heifers to breed and sell I did everything I could think of to them and gave the information to the auctioneer to be announced. I AI'ed them to a drop dead calving ease bull with high growth numbers. I ran a son of that bull as the clean up bull. Vaccinated for everything under the sun. PI tested them. Multiple injectable worm shots. Great mineral program. The people who bought them were very pleased with them. Sold at a stock cow sale where they darn sure announced everything about the cattle.
Dave
Well-known member
This year in February and March I bought 41 broken mouth cows. They cost me right about $34,850. I have sold 33 of those cows for a total of $33,927. That means I am still out $923 on original purchase price. I haven't figured the exact numbers yet on days on feed and days on pasture but what I did was round the number up and used a number that I know is on the long side. So at $0.75 a day per cow(rented pasture) that is $3,690. On hay at $3.00 per head a day it works out to $16,200. $923 + $3,690 + $16,200 = $20,813. That is against 8 cows and 41 calves that I still have. I got a little over $1,000 a head for the cows I have sold. So using $1,000 for the 8 I still have, $20813 - $8,000 = $12813. That $12,813 divided by the 41 calves is $312 per calf. These calves should average $800 a head at the present prices. $800 - $312 =$488 So 41 calves at $488 makes the profit $20,008. With this program I don't worry about calving out heifers or feeding long term cows. And it is certainly penciling out this year.
Ky hills
Well-known member
That's a lot like how we did. There are some regional bred heifer sales that have certain requirements set and those that go through the sale are generally going to go on and make good cows.
The caveat is that those are special stand alone sales and printed and advertised as such. There may be individuals that do the same programs and sell them privately or attempt to sell through the regular sales. Those should turn out ok too, but at the regular sales bred heifers generally are discounted below what a larger bred cow would sell for and thus not practical for someone to market them that route here.
I agree. For what anyone would have i9n a heifer they try to raise, breed and get the first calf out of, I could take that money and buy you a 2nd calf or older cow that is twice what your best heifer could be. Every time. Since I first started helping my grandpa with his cows 55 years ago. I have always sold calved right off their mommas, and If i needed to replace a cow, I took some of the money from selling calves and bought a cow. Same thing as raising one to eat...most expensive beef you can buy. I remember asking my grandpa when I was little why didn't we butcher some and keep them . He said " I would much rather sell them, and take part of the money and go buy the steaks I want at the store. "
Dave
Well-known member
Actually most of the years I did the bred heifer deal I sold them on Superior. I know I did better that way. I purposely had enough for a truck load.
Ky hills
Well-known member
Yes, I'm sure a load lot was best for that way of marketing.
Here at those bred heifer sales some of the larger consignments would have 30-40 maybe 50 at most. They would be grouped out in lots of 1-5. Typically the smaller groups of 2-3 head would sell the best.
Travlr
Well-known member
Most of the regular sales I've patronized will advertise ahead of time to people they know will be interested in specific things... if you let them know well in advance of bringing in those things. Some have specific dates they do bred heifer sales, bull sales, etc.
I can't stress enough that getting to know the people at my local auction/sale barns is one of the best things I've done.
Ky hills
Well-known member
Yes, there are some special sales like monthly cow sales or a specific time that they sell breeding cattle during a weekly sale. They may announce and advertise, and may not. I'm speaking from experience of just here locally, and probably know the management of several stockyards as good as anybody else does. It really doesn't matter, bred heifers are not going to sell real well here through the ring unless it is a special heifer sale with some outside management. Your dealing with a completely different crowd of people at a special heifer sale than even at a monthly cow sale. The cow sales may do a little better than on a regular sale day but not by a huge margin. When it comes to heifers, they sell high end at special bred heifer sales, but will sell for less than a cow usually at a cow sale.
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rocfarm
Well-known member
But did you make a reasonable rate of return and get paid for your labor?
Heard a guy say that if all the other cattle at the auction are not vaccinated and worked, your 10 head might not get a premium because they all go into one pot load…
