Silver
Well-known member
My bad. I thought everyone had an old propane or two bottle laying in the grass out back.
In these parts an expired bottle if not free is next to it.
Best Freeze-Proof Water Trough for Central Texas
- Thread starter rocfarm
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In these parts an expired bottle if not free is next to it.
greybeard
Well-known member
I don't know how many I shot full of .270 holes last spring so the scrap metal place would accept them..
I wouldn't go through the hassle of bubblers when you can use water flow from keeping the troughs and pipes from freezing.
Make sure your water well(s) are ready with gen plug ins.
Make sure your water well(s) are ready with gen plug ins.
rocfarm
Well-known member
Dad just had to buy one at TSC. Not cheap.
rocfarm
Well-known member
greybeard
Well-known member
I was pricing some bottles and a propane heater last month. The heaters are reasonable, the bottles not so much. 40lb over $100 empty.
RDFF
Well-known member
I just installed two of these right before hard freeze up.
It's continuous flow... which keeps it open for me in the wintertime. The 4" PVC drain in the center is hooked up to my field tile, for the overflow. Here's one of them, at -14F, fully exposed to NW 40-50 mph winds, in the middle of our recent Minnesota Christmas blizzard. I have never chopped the ice on these yet. The water level is down on this pic because a bunch of cows had just left it. This blizzard was a nasty one! Water supply is 1 1/4" 160 PSI black poly from my well. Used a Jobe Topaz valve, with their "FrostPro" installed for the continuous flow part when the main valve closes. Pretty minimal flow required to keep them open.
It's continuous flow... which keeps it open for me in the wintertime. The 4" PVC drain in the center is hooked up to my field tile, for the overflow. Here's one of them, at -14F, fully exposed to NW 40-50 mph winds, in the middle of our recent Minnesota Christmas blizzard. I have never chopped the ice on these yet. The water level is down on this pic because a bunch of cows had just left it. This blizzard was a nasty one! Water supply is 1 1/4" 160 PSI black poly from my well. Used a Jobe Topaz valve, with their "FrostPro" installed for the continuous flow part when the main valve closes. Pretty minimal flow required to keep them open.
RDFF
Well-known member
I put down 1 1/2" screened rock all around them to avoid the mud. Filled the trench underneath the tire/around the riser pipes with the same, so it wouldn't settle. Tamped sackrete in under the sidewall and around the pipes coming in, let water in enough so it covered the concrete a few inches and let sit for 1/2 a day, then filled it with water and let the cattle on it the next day. I used a utility hydrant as my entrance pipe and shutoff (operates on the same principle as a yard hydrant, just built differently, and is available in larger pipe size for less restriction on the flow... ). That allows me the option of draining the water down below the frostline. Followed that with an anti-siphon check valve, then the Topaz.
rocfarm
Well-known member
Thanks for the post! It's on my bucket list to find some cheap tires and do at least one of these types of water troughs. Will definitely do an overflow valve that I can turn on in the winter.I just installed two of these right before hard freeze up.
It's continuous flow... which keeps it open for me in the wintertime. The 4" PVC drain in the center is hooked up to my field tile, for the overflow. Here's one of them, at -14F, fully exposed to NW 40-50 mph winds, in the middle of our recent Minnesota Christmas blizzard. I have never chopped the ice on these yet. The water level is down on this pic because a bunch of cows had just left it. This blizzard was a nasty one! Water supply is 1 1/4" 160 PSI black poly from my well. Used a Jobe Topaz valve, with their "FrostPro" installed for the continuous flow part when the main valve closes. Pretty minimal flow required to keep them open.
RDFF
Well-known member
I got them free from the local rock quarry. Had a bunch of them sitting there not knowing what to do with them. Also got some free from the local tire supplier... take off discards from another rock quarry. Cost's them money to dispose of 'em, so they're not hard to come by. The big payloader tires or earthmover tires are best... way heavier than like a tractor tire. Takes some work to sawzall the bead off the one side, but I was able to do it in about a half hour with a new blade. These are 3' wide by 6' diameter... figures out to about 600 gallons. I've got 280 head on them, and I've never seen them drop more than about 6". Wintertime though... probably drink alot faster in the summertime! I'd say get as big of ones as you can get your hands on... or as big of ones as you are comfortable hauling...
If you're going to do the continuous flow for winter, be sure to put in an adequately sized drain... it can just go off into a ditch or something, and doesn't have to be buried very deep at all... just enough so the cattle won't get at it when it's muddy. You should put a drain in any way, so you can drain and clean the tank, but for continuous flow, you need to put a standpipe on the drain (so it drains off the excess off the TOP while the tank is full). I put a 4" PVC FPT fitting level with the top of the concrete floor, and then threaded a 4" MPT fitting into that, with the riser pipe glued into that fitting. Then just cut it off at the right height, and stick a 4" PVC vent stack screen into it to keep the hay from going into your drain. To drain the tank, just unscrew the riser pipe.
A friend of mine used a brass "bleeder valve" for the continuous flow... like a needle valve. Only need about 1/8" hole for flow. He put his so it kind of circulates the water in the tank as it comes out of that valve... I don't think that's what's keeping it open though... it's just geothermally heated water (ground heat) coming into the tank, rising to the top, and going out the overflow. The colder it gets, the more "inflow" you will need to keep it open.
If you're going to do the continuous flow for winter, be sure to put in an adequately sized drain... it can just go off into a ditch or something, and doesn't have to be buried very deep at all... just enough so the cattle won't get at it when it's muddy. You should put a drain in any way, so you can drain and clean the tank, but for continuous flow, you need to put a standpipe on the drain (so it drains off the excess off the TOP while the tank is full). I put a 4" PVC FPT fitting level with the top of the concrete floor, and then threaded a 4" MPT fitting into that, with the riser pipe glued into that fitting. Then just cut it off at the right height, and stick a 4" PVC vent stack screen into it to keep the hay from going into your drain. To drain the tank, just unscrew the riser pipe.
A friend of mine used a brass "bleeder valve" for the continuous flow... like a needle valve. Only need about 1/8" hole for flow. He put his so it kind of circulates the water in the tank as it comes out of that valve... I don't think that's what's keeping it open though... it's just geothermally heated water (ground heat) coming into the tank, rising to the top, and going out the overflow. The colder it gets, the more "inflow" you will need to keep it open.
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kenny thomas
Well-known member
I have one that's 900 gallon and 2 that are probably 400. The recovery on the smaller ones keeps them from freezing better that the large one. I sure like your water movement keeping them from freezing.
RDFF
Well-known member
Yeah, if they get "bigger than you need", you'll have more surface area to try to keep from freezing too... I like this size for the number of animals I'm running right now. The other issue might be how much flow you can get from your supply line/well. If you need reserve capacity, then you need reserve capacity! 
rocfarm
Well-known member
Good info!
Speaking of using the geothermal energy in the ground, I was thinking about getting a tire that is tall enough to basically bury six inches (pile caliche around it for a rock skirt) along with the continuous flow.
If I buried the bottom part of the trough after I get everything installed, any problems? Or would that work?
I'll look at finding a rock quarry in Texas. Should be some around.
RDFF
Well-known member
No problem... that's exactly what I did. Tires I used were 36" wide, and I buried them about 12" in 1 1/2" screened gravel. You want them high enough to keep the calves out of them, but low enough so that they can still drink. So far I haven't had any animals get into them... but that IS/WAS a concern of mine.
Here's my preconstruction diagram:
I show two check valves on it... that's just as insurance in case one would fail. One should do it, and is all I used. If you're on a municipal water supply, these check valves might not meet your code requirements, and you might HAVE to have an air gap ... check your local regulations.
I used a "utility hydrant"... Woodford-U125M-2-Product-Overview.pdf) as my water inlet shut-off, so I can actually shut the water off below frostline, if I want to (proper functioning of that hydrant then requires the use of an "air valve" (S-050 | Automatic Air Release Valve "Segev" (arivalves.com)) with a snorkel on it, which I also put on these... so the hydrant can draw air in to drain down, while the tank is still full of water...). That "air valve" is followed by an anti-siphon check valve (you NEED this also for the hydrant to function properly when draining down, but you SHOULD have one of these on any underwater tank valve anyway), to keep water from the tank from being able to move backward into and potentially contaminating the supply line, and then comes the main float controlled valve with the "FrostPro". Everything is positioned well underwater, protected from freezing. You can shut off the water coming into the tank if you want to or just shut off the "FrostPro", and still keep the tank full of water and let it freeze over. When you need it because you've moved the cattle to another area, for example, just chop the tank open, and turn on the "FrostPro"...
Here's my preconstruction diagram:
I show two check valves on it... that's just as insurance in case one would fail. One should do it, and is all I used. If you're on a municipal water supply, these check valves might not meet your code requirements, and you might HAVE to have an air gap
... check your local regulations.I used a "utility hydrant"... Woodford-U125M-2-Product-Overview.pdf) as my water inlet shut-off, so I can actually shut the water off below frostline, if I want to (proper functioning of that hydrant then requires the use of an "air valve" (S-050 | Automatic Air Release Valve "Segev" (arivalves.com)) with a snorkel on it, which I also put on these... so the hydrant can draw air in to drain down, while the tank is still full of water...). That "air valve" is followed by an anti-siphon check valve (you NEED this also for the hydrant to function properly when draining down, but you SHOULD have one of these on any underwater tank valve anyway), to keep water from the tank from being able to move backward into and potentially contaminating the supply line, and then comes the main float controlled valve with the "FrostPro". Everything is positioned well underwater, protected from freezing. You can shut off the water coming into the tank if you want to or just shut off the "FrostPro", and still keep the tank full of water and let it freeze over. When you need it because you've moved the cattle to another area, for example, just chop the tank open, and turn on the "FrostPro"...
RDFF
Well-known member
BTW, some suggest bringing the supply pipe up through the sidewall of the tire. I considered that too, with the idea of helping to protect the plumbing from critters that get into the tank. However, if you're in cold like we have up here, you're putting that supply line at more risk of freezing. The tank "could" freeze from the outside inward somewhat... cold tread of the tire exposed to the elements... but it will never freeze far enough in to get to the plumbing if that's located in the center... the ice would have to get 2' thick or more... and it's not going to do that. I suggest keeping it in the middle as much as possible, and if you're concerned about animals getting into it, place a protection guard right over the top that you can remove when necessary, built like a spoked wagon wheel.
rocfarm
Well-known member
Thanks a million! Getting excited enough to want to try to do it this summer!No problem... that's exactly what I did. Tires I used were 36" wide, and I buried them about 12" in 1 1/2" screened gravel. You want them high enough to keep the calves out of them, but low enough so that they can still drink. So far I haven't had any animals get into them... but that IS/WAS a concern of mine.
Here's my preconstruction diagram:
View attachment 24893
I show two check valves on it... that's just as insurance in case one would fail. One should do it, and is all I used. If you're on a municipal water supply, these check valves might not meet your code requirements, and you might HAVE to have an air gap
I used a "utility hydrant"... Woodford-U125M-2-Product-Overview.pdf) as my water inlet shut-off, so I can actually shut the water off below frostline, if I want to (proper functioning of that hydrant then requires the use of an "air valve" (S-050 | Automatic Air Release Valve "Segev" (arivalves.com)) with a snorkel on it, which I also put on these... so the hydrant can draw air in to drain down, while the tank is still full of water...). That "air valve" is followed by an anti-siphon check valve (you NEED this also for the hydrant to function properly when draining down, but you SHOULD have one of these on any underwater tank valve anyway), to keep water from the tank from being able to move backward into and potentially contaminating the supply line, and then comes the main float controlled valve with the "FrostPro". Everything is positioned well underwater, protected from freezing. You can shut off the water coming into the tank if you want to or just shut off the "FrostPro", and still keep the tank full of water and let it freeze over. When you need it because you've moved the cattle to another area, for example, just chop the tank open, and turn on the "FrostPro"...
Got well water, so should be in the clear.
RDFF
Well-known member
It'll work great for you... and in Central Tx, you shouldn't have too much to worry about freezing-wise at all!!! I "vacationed" helping some friends farming near Sulphur Springs for a couple of weeks. They were complaining that it sometimes gets down into the single digits in winter!!!!
rocfarm
Well-known member
85f this week on a few days. Dry again.It'll work great for you... and in Central Tx, you shouldn't have too much to worry about freezing-wise at all!!! I "vacationed" helping some friends farming near Sulphur Springs for a couple of weeks. They were complaining that it sometimes gets down into the single digits in winter!!!!
But I definitely want one good freeze-proof water trough.
Got my big tank that's fed by a major creek fixed drifting the drought last summer, so I'll be double redundant for their water.
Don't check them as much as other folks, so I need the peace of mind.
Thanks again. If/When I get it done, I'll post pics.
RDFF
Well-known member
I went with the "wheel handle" hydrant, because I figured it'd be the least likely to get broken if a critter got in the tank. I take the "wheel" off, so there's just the brass pull rod sticking up through the top of the hydrant about an inch. They also come in bigger sizes... so it won't reduce the flow rate of the water coming into the tank (recovery rate). Being that far south, you could easily get away with just a regular shut off valve in the tank itself, IMO. You won't likely need/want to shut it down below the frostline... just keep some water in the tank when it's cold. The utility hydrant is good but expensive... like double what a regular Woodford yard hydrant is (and the Woodford yard hydrant is IMO "the best"... but they're about double what you can buy a Campbell or other brand hydrant for...). I didn't want that big handle that the yard hydrants have sticking up to get broken, or potentially to get frozen into the ice cap if the thing did freeze over. Arrange everything laying as flat across the bottom as you can, so it's as deep into the water as possible.
