I agree with you on that statement.Caustic Burno":3sx9gcjd said:Your looking at a crap shoot calf crop. Cutting corners on the bull is not the place to do it. If you want good black calfs go spend the money and get a good Angus bull.
thats for sure you got a four breeds wadded up in one package. come calving time the calve's will look like a paint chart at searsCaustic Burno":2ur5yfyi said:. Cutting corners on the bull is not the place to do it. If you want good black calfs go spend the money and get a good Angus bull.
- Your looking at a crap shoot calf crop
TxStateCowboy":2pq2m14j said:I would say give him a shot, especially if he's out of great genetics.
The crap shoot may be in the colors hidden in the beefmaster genes, but i'm one whos against making any sort of selection by the color of an animal's hair.
If he looks like a good bull, was from good parents, and has that "get'er done" vitality a bull should have, i say go for it.
ALACOWMAN":5wseu81q said:thats for sure you got a four breeds wadded up in one package. come calving time the calve's will look like a paint chart at searsCaustic Burno":5wseu81q said:. Cutting corners on the bull is not the place to do it. If you want good black calfs go spend the money and get a good Angus bull.
- Your looking at a crap shoot calf crop
SoTX Cwby":3ko5dm1h said:Using that bull will be depend on the cows that you are breeding to, but if he had good bloodlines on bothsides and will be used as a terminal sire there should be no issue using him. Crossbreeding animals should always try to maximize the heterosis. So in choosing the bull to use you must consider the cows.
Every breed has consistency and uniformity issues amongst their membership some breeds just are not as successful at marketing to cover up their flaws. As far as the uniformity of Beefmasters, they have come a long way in getting to where they are today. So much so that I feel they have given up some of what they were founded for, the principles of the 6 essentials, by buying into the black hided fad. Last time I checked it was red meat that I was eating not the color of the hide. Being consistent on the dinner plate has no bearing on what color the hide is.
trin":296m1462 said:i relly want the beefmaster genetics but it is real hard to find a good black beefmaster bull for a reasonable price. i only have about 15 cows. i plan on keeping some replacment heifers. then going back with a braunvieh bull.
it has nothing to do with intelligents. do you figure a four in one unproven bull would be a intelligent choice for a herd sire? most of these cattlemen you refer too are in the buisness to make money and produce what the market dictates. its that simple. they might would like to raise spotted poka dotted cattle for their own viewing pleasure . but reality tells them they would be cheat'in their bottom line.TxStateCowboy":u9rvtvbc said:SoTX Cwby":u9rvtvbc said:Using that bull will be depend on the cows that you are breeding to, but if he had good bloodlines on bothsides and will be used as a terminal sire there should be no issue using him. Crossbreeding animals should always try to maximize the heterosis. So in choosing the bull to use you must consider the cows.
Every breed has consistency and uniformity issues amongst their membership some breeds just are not as successful at marketing to cover up their flaws. As far as the uniformity of Beefmasters, they have come a long way in getting to where they are today. So much so that I feel they have given up some of what they were founded for, the principles of the 6 essentials, by buying into the black hided fad. Last time I checked it was red meat that I was eating not the color of the hide. Being consistent on the dinner plate has no bearing on what color the hide is.
done', this color problem will eventually fade away. But not any time soon. That is sad and unfortunate.
- As cattlemen become more intelligent and willing to learn rather than follow trends and/or 'how its always been
Unfortunately it would probably take an economic crisis for people to just start making beef for beef again. Breeders and Associations have gotten a little high on the hog when it comes to the real nature and point of this business. Marketing-a producer of perceptions-is winning over fundamentals/utility.
Economically- We are near an cattle/beef (actually commodity) price peak, can't forget it is a matter of when, not if, we head back towards the trough. The weaker High-dollar cattle operations will die off, and the ones that survive are those that can consistently sell beef animals at a good price to the real beef operations, the ones taking 18-wheelers full of steers to the packers to be sent to grocery stores. You think these guys really care if steer 185-7 has a white spot on his left leg?
by folk's that like to take gambles come on beefy you know if it were strait beefmaster bull it would be different. i dont care how great of parents a person use's , you can make mongrels out of any of em. when you get to many breed's wadded up.and the hybred vigor goes out the windowBeefy":18gw24rv said:how do unproven bulls get proven?
yes he truely is a different animal. he is no longer a beefmaster or angus. he is a multi breed bull wrapped up in one package. and whats even worse he is a F1 BULL and that brings on a whole nuther story. i have cross bred cows. i have confidence in their ablity. to do there best with any PUREBRED bull i use. but a bull like this. you can pretty much shove the parents epds up a hogs butt. because they are now worthless as far as his progeny is concernedbbyou":3eljnh8u said:Is he truly a different animal?? How is he different from any other 14-24 month old bull who received 1/2 of his genetics from his Dam and the other half from his Sire? Both of which have years of proven and predictable performance data but still sometimes throw culls(believe me, the heads have been cut off of 1000's of bulls with proven genetics/epds). Notice I said proven genetics/epds. No bull has been proven prior to exposing them to cows/heifers. No matter how good the genetics/epds, you dont know what you have until you breed him and get calves on the ground. On the other hand, I do agree with ALACOWMAN that the young bull has to prove himself. If you choose to breed only proven bulls, you are limiting yourself to the use of purchasing semen from proven bulls(an economical option) or purchasing proven herdsires(not always economical). We all gamble with young bulls, unfortunately its part of the business. What we can do to lower our exposure is to gather as much information on the young bull that we can prior to using him. After we have done our homework, we must have confidence in our decision to breed our new bull. If not, do as ALACOWMAN and chose to breed an animal that you have confidence in.