beefmaster angus cross bull

[trin]

how do people on here feel about the use of a 50-50% bull. the bull is half beefmaster half angus and comes from real good stock.

 

[andybob]

What breed or cross will he be used with? and are calves to be terminal or will replacements be kept back?

 

[Caustic Burno]

Your looking at a crap shoot calf crop. Cutting corners on the bull is not the place to do it. If you want good black calfs go spend the money and get a good Angus bull.

 

[THG]

Your looking at a crap shoot calf crop. Cutting corners on the bull is not the place to do it. If you want good black calfs go spend the money and get a good Angus bull.

I agree with you on that statement.

THG

 

[TxStateCowboy]

I would say give him a shot, especially if he's out of great genetics.

The crap shoot may be in the colors hidden in the beefmaster genes, but i'm one whos against making any sort of selection by the color of an animal's hair.

If he looks like a good bull, was from good parents, and has that "get'er done" vitality a bull should have, i say go for it.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

• Your looking at a crap shoot calf crop

. Cutting corners on the bull is not the place to do it. If you want good black calfs go spend the money and get a good Angus bull.

thats for sure you got a four breeds wadded up in one package. come calving time the calve's will look like a paint chart at sears

 

[Caustic Burno]

I would say give him a shot, especially if he's out of great genetics.

The crap shoot may be in the colors hidden in the beefmaster genes, but i'm one whos against making any sort of selection by the color of an animal's hair.

If he looks like a good bull, was from good parents, and has that "get'er done" vitality a bull should have, i say go for it.

It is not color but which gene is stepping to the front of the line Hereford, Shorthorn, Brimmer, Angus. This is a recipe to loose money. If this is a hobby and maximizing profit means nothing go for it. If I can teach you one thing is is all about a uniform calf crop when it come to maximizing profit.

 

[Caustic Burno]

• Your looking at a crap shoot calf crop

. Cutting corners on the bull is not the place to do it. If you want good black calfs go spend the money and get a good Angus bull.

thats for sure you got a four breeds wadded up in one package. come calving time the calve's will look like a paint chart at sears

Now thats funny I gotta remember that one.

 

[SoTX Cwby]

Using that bull will be depend on the cows that you are breeding to, but if he had good bloodlines on bothsides and will be used as a terminal sire there should be no issue using him. Crossbreeding animals should always try to maximize the heterosis. So in choosing the bull to use you must consider the cows.

Every breed has consistency and uniformity issues amongst their membership some breeds just are not as successful at marketing to cover up their flaws. As far as the uniformity of Beefmasters, they have come a long way in getting to where they are today. So much so that I feel they have given up some of what they were founded for, the principles of the 6 essentials, by buying into the black hided fad. Last time I checked it was red meat that I was eating not the color of the hide. Being consistent on the dinner plate has no bearing on what color the hide is.

 

[TxStateCowboy]

Using that bull will be depend on the cows that you are breeding to, but if he had good bloodlines on bothsides and will be used as a terminal sire there should be no issue using him. Crossbreeding animals should always try to maximize the heterosis. So in choosing the bull to use you must consider the cows.

Every breed has consistency and uniformity issues amongst their membership some breeds just are not as successful at marketing to cover up their flaws. As far as the uniformity of Beefmasters, they have come a long way in getting to where they are today. So much so that I feel they have given up some of what they were founded for, the principles of the 6 essentials, by buying into the black hided fad. Last time I checked it was red meat that I was eating not the color of the hide. Being consistent on the dinner plate has no bearing on what color the hide is.

As cattlemen become more intelligent and willing to learn rather than follow trends and/or 'how its always been done', this color problem will eventually fade away. But not any time soon. That is sad and unfortunate.

Unfortunately it would probably take an economic crisis for people to just start making beef for beef again. Breeders and Associations have gotten a little high on the hog when it comes to the real nature and point of this business. Marketing-a producer of perceptions-is winning over fundamentals/utility.

Economically- We are near an cattle/beef (actually commodity) price peak, can't forget it is a matter of when, not if, we head back towards the trough. The weaker High-dollar cattle operations will die off, and the ones that survive are those that can consistently sell beef animals at a good price to the real beef operations, the ones taking 18-wheelers full of steers to the packers to be sent to grocery stores. You think these guys really care if steer 185-7 has a white spot on his left leg?

 

[trin]

i relly want the beefmaster genetics but it is real hard to find a good black beefmaster bull for a reasonable price. i only have about 15 cows. i plan on keeping some replacment heifers. then going back with a braunvieh bull.

 

[birdog]

i relly want the beefmaster genetics but it is real hard to find a good black beefmaster bull for a reasonable price. i only have about 15 cows. i plan on keeping some replacment heifers. then going back with a braunvieh bull.

With only 15 cows you could AI to a very good black beefmaster bull at a reasonable cost since it's the cross heifers that your wanting anyway. You could buy a black beefmaster but after a couple of years you wouldn't get much of a return on him because alot of people don't want a used bull. JMO Good luck.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Using that bull will be depend on the cows that you are breeding to, but if he had good bloodlines on bothsides and will be used as a terminal sire there should be no issue using him. Crossbreeding animals should always try to maximize the heterosis. So in choosing the bull to use you must consider the cows.

Every breed has consistency and uniformity issues amongst their membership some breeds just are not as successful at marketing to cover up their flaws. As far as the uniformity of Beefmasters, they have come a long way in getting to where they are today. So much so that I feel they have given up some of what they were founded for, the principles of the 6 essentials, by buying into the black hided fad. Last time I checked it was red meat that I was eating not the color of the hide. Being consistent on the dinner plate has no bearing on what color the hide is.

• As cattlemen become more intelligent and willing to learn rather than follow trends and/or 'how its always been

done', this color problem will eventually fade away. But not any time soon. That is sad and unfortunate.

Unfortunately it would probably take an economic crisis for people to just start making beef for beef again. Breeders and Associations have gotten a little high on the hog when it comes to the real nature and point of this business. Marketing-a producer of perceptions-is winning over fundamentals/utility.

Economically- We are near an cattle/beef (actually commodity) price peak, can't forget it is a matter of when, not if, we head back towards the trough. The weaker High-dollar cattle operations will die off, and the ones that survive are those that can consistently sell beef animals at a good price to the real beef operations, the ones taking 18-wheelers full of steers to the packers to be sent to grocery stores. You think these guys really care if steer 185-7 has a white spot on his left leg?

it has nothing to do with intelligents. do you figure a four in one unproven bull would be a intelligent choice for a herd sire? most of these cattlemen you refer too are in the buisness to make money and produce what the market dictates. its that simple. they might would like to raise spotted poka dotted cattle for their own viewing pleasure . but reality tells them they would be cheat'in their bottom line.

 

[bbyou]

Hello and good day to all who post here. Trin, I joined this board because I found the many answers/opinions to your post very interesting. I run 650 angus cows and 500 50:50 angus/beefmaster crossbred cows/heifers and breed them strictly to beefmaster bulls of all colors. By breeding the angus cows to beefmaster bulls we reduce the Brahman influence to 25%, the Hereford influence to 12.5%, the Shorthorn influence to 12.5% and the Angus influence to 50%. This allows me to provide my midwestern cattle buyers an animal with consistent conformation, increased maternal traits, reproductive traits, increased WW and YW as well as low BW and heat tolerance, while still providing acceptable carcass traits. The heterosis and hybrid vigor is outstanding. We sell approximately 200 50:50 steers each year at market as well as 100 50:50 bulls to local cattlemen. We retain many of our replacement 50:50 heifers and have no problem marketing the rest to local cattlemen. I have found this combination to work best for me in my region. My bull buyers use my 50:50 cross bulls on many different breeds of cattle and keep coming back for more.

I agree with Tx StateCowboy, If the dam and sire of your 50:50 bull are from reputable bloodlines with the data to support him, breed him with confidence.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

even if the parents of this bull are proven in their respected breed . he is a completely different animal now.. and has too prove himself. why take that kind of gamble when there's proven bulls out there . i couldnt use him in confidence.

 

[Beefy]

how do unproven bulls get proven?

 

[ALACOWMAN]

how do unproven bulls get proven?

by folk's that like to take gambles come on beefy you know if it were strait beefmaster bull it would be different. i dont care how great of parents a person use's , you can make mongrels out of any of em. when you get to many breed's wadded up.and the hybred vigor goes out the window

 

[bbyou]

Is he truly a different animal?? How is he different from any other 14-24 month old bull who received 1/2 of his genetics from his Dam and the other half from his Sire? Both of which have years of proven and predictable performance data but still sometimes throw culls(believe me, the heads have been cut off of 1000's of bulls with proven genetics/epds). Notice I said proven genetics/epds. No bull has been proven prior to exposing them to cows/heifers. No matter how good the genetics/epds, you dont know what you have until you breed him and get calves on the ground. On the other hand, I do agree with ALACOWMAN that the young bull has to prove himself. If you choose to breed only proven bulls, you are limiting yourself to the use of purchasing semen from proven bulls(an economical option) or purchasing proven herdsires(not always economical). We all gamble with young bulls, unfortunately its part of the business. What we can do to lower our exposure is to gather as much information on the young bull that we can prior to using him. After we have done our homework, we must have confidence in our decision to breed our new bull. If not, do as ALACOWMAN and chose to breed an animal that you have confidence in.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Is he truly a different animal?? How is he different from any other 14-24 month old bull who received 1/2 of his genetics from his Dam and the other half from his Sire? Both of which have years of proven and predictable performance data but still sometimes throw culls(believe me, the heads have been cut off of 1000's of bulls with proven genetics/epds). Notice I said proven genetics/epds. No bull has been proven prior to exposing them to cows/heifers. No matter how good the genetics/epds, you dont know what you have until you breed him and get calves on the ground. On the other hand, I do agree with ALACOWMAN that the young bull has to prove himself. If you choose to breed only proven bulls, you are limiting yourself to the use of purchasing semen from proven bulls(an economical option) or purchasing proven herdsires(not always economical). We all gamble with young bulls, unfortunately its part of the business. What we can do to lower our exposure is to gather as much information on the young bull that we can prior to using him. After we have done our homework, we must have confidence in our decision to breed our new bull. If not, do as ALACOWMAN and chose to breed an animal that you have confidence in.

yes he truely is a different animal. he is no longer a beefmaster or angus. he is a multi breed bull wrapped up in one package. and whats even worse he is a F1 BULL and that brings on a whole nuther story. i have cross bred cows. i have confidence in their ablity. to do there best with any PUREBRED bull i use. but a bull like this. you can pretty much shove the parents epds up a hogs butt. because they are now worthless as far as his progeny is concerned

 

[bbyou]

Proven vs Unproven. How do epd's fit into this equation? F1's as well as purebreds can each be proven herdsires, with or without the use of epd's. I suggested the use of epds in qualifying a potential herdsire, not proving him. The progeny will prove him. Again, if this breeder wants to use a 50:50 crossbred angus/beefmaster bull on his cows, (from my experiences, and assuming this animal is a quality animal from quality genetics) he should do so.

You mentioned the F1 bull "brings on a whole nuther story." Let me ask you a question:

1. How is using unproven purebred bulls on F1 cows different from using an unproven F1 bull on purebred cows?