Beef Production - USA vs Australia - Ringside Seats!

[Bez+]

So George tell us the rest of the story...

The rest of the story….

This bull is a home grown product of a Keynote son/Pure Gold daughter cross. He is the only calf his dam has had that I didn't totally fall "in love" with, as a calf. I consider her my best cow. Although his parents both have pigment, he has absolutely none. His overall "masculinity look" is lacking – much the same as the bull that El_Putzo posted here earlier. "Red" pretty much nailed it – kinda average.

But he does have one quality that I'd sure like to improve in my cattle….and I think most anyone in our area would in theirs. He has the ability to stay in decent shape and continue to grow in some really sparse pasture conditions – and nothing else added. That ability was already showing in him, compared to his peers, by the time he was weaning age – and it is the reason he didn't go auction with the rest of his male peers.

After a week in the lot for weaning and to gentle him some, I threw him out with his older full brother, that I had also kept as a herd bull prospect, in a grazed down native pasture, the worst pasture I had, and more or less forgot them both over the winter, except for mineral. I put a protein tub out for them, but they didn't use it for some reason. That's the way I've decided to develop bulls for my own use. I figure if they can make it in those kind of conditions, they will do OK when they are out with the cows in better grazing conditions.

We sold breeding bulls for 25 years. I know that's not the way to develop bulls to sell – if you want to impress your buyers. But if some breeders did that, it would sure give them a more "honest" look at the cattle they're producing. Doing so has sure forced me to look at mine differently. I keep seeing that ad on CT for "Copyright"! I've taken the link and downloaded his video a few times and I'm always very impressed. But I know that bull wasn't developed in conditions like this bull was and I always wonder what he'd look like if he had been? Maybe not "average", but I'd wager he'd be less impressive.

Many of you don't have the ability to "test" your animals in those kind of conditions anyway. Your pasture, climate, and grazing conditions aren't that "poor".

Anyway, it is coming to decision time on this bull. I have 15 heifers that need to bred next March/April. I had kept this bull as a prospect to breed them. I have other options – the best is probably to sync and AI them, then let my Star Lake bull clean them up, although he's likely to have just come through a tough winter and breeding season himself. Or I could go out and buy another bull prospect.

Do I keep this bull through another winter and see how he develops? Do I "pawn him off" on a neighbor if I don't decide to keep him – or do I take him to the auction barn and just unload him there?

George

I stopped reading the thread when I got to this post.

Lots of average about him and I give a damm about pigmentation - it is not always a panacea.

As a person who does not pay a lot of attention to EPD info and is not usually interested in pampered crap that cannot live without grain and high protein grass - this guy is interesting to me.

Nope - this guy lives on rough ground - I do not want to see him with grain in him - makes him a fake in my opinion and we see that with fat greasy bulls in pictures all the time - he needs to live outdoors on what is there - that makes him real to me - breed him to your heifers and see what happens - if he turns out call me. Maybe we can see how to get him or a few semen straws over the border and not break the bank.

I just picked up a few hundred bucks worth of semen from Northern Rancher - he does have some good "rough stock" that does not need a silver spoon life style to make it where it counts - in the field.

Your bull is far better than 90% of what we see here and for that matter maybe 95%

If we saw more animals in their working clothes that looked like this we could see an overall improvement in the herds of this continent.

The vast number of which live in pastures of hundreds of acres in size, are not hand fed, not sheltered and certainly not even seen for days upon end - I like an animal that can do that.

You can keep your greasy bulls at home - they may look pretty but they often fall apart when they need to pick up the pace - just because a bull is big and fat in a picture does not mean he will make good calves - I want my bull to breed even when he is tired, sore and hungry - I want my calves to hit the ground and live - even when I do not get a chance to see them for a long period of time.

I want to see some of this guys calves if you have the time and patience and money to do it.

And yes - we are getting out of cows - it just seems to be taking longer than planned! 8)

Regards

Bez+

 

[JHH]

Wow, This thread sure took a turn.

George keep him and breed him then post picks and tell us told you so ;-)

 

[CPL]

So George tell us the rest of the story...

The rest of the story….

This bull is a home grown product of a Keynote son/Pure Gold daughter cross. He is the only calf his dam has had that I didn't totally fall "in love" with, as a calf. I consider her my best cow. Although his parents both have pigment, he has absolutely none. His overall "masculinity look" is lacking – much the same as the bull that El_Putzo posted here earlier. "Red" pretty much nailed it – kinda average.

But he does have one quality that I'd sure like to improve in my cattle….and I think most anyone in our area would in theirs. He has the ability to stay in decent shape and continue to grow in some really sparse pasture conditions – and nothing else added. That ability was already showing in him, compared to his peers, by the time he was weaning age – and it is the reason he didn't go auction with the rest of his male peers.

After a week in the lot for weaning and to gentle him some, I threw him out with his older full brother, that I had also kept as a herd bull prospect, in a grazed down native pasture, the worst pasture I had, and more or less forgot them both over the winter, except for mineral. I put a protein tub out for them, but they didn't use it for some reason. That's the way I've decided to develop bulls for my own use. I figure if they can make it in those kind of conditions, they will do OK when they are out with the cows in better grazing conditions.

We sold breeding bulls for 25 years. I know that's not the way to develop bulls to sell – if you want to impress your buyers. But if some breeders did that, it would sure give them a more "honest" look at the cattle they're producing. Doing so has sure forced me to look at mine differently. I keep seeing that ad on CT for "Copyright"! I've taken the link and downloaded his video a few times and I'm always very impressed. But I know that bull wasn't developed in conditions like this bull was and I always wonder what he'd look like if he had been? Maybe not "average", but I'd wager he'd be less impressive.

Many of you don't have the ability to "test" your animals in those kind of conditions anyway. Your pasture, climate, and grazing conditions aren't that "poor".

Anyway, it is coming to decision time on this bull. I have 15 heifers that need to bred next March/April. I had kept this bull as a prospect to breed them. I have other options – the best is probably to sync and AI them, then let my Star Lake bull clean them up, although he's likely to have just come through a tough winter and breeding season himself. Or I could go out and buy another bull prospect.

Do I keep this bull through another winter and see how he develops? Do I "pawn him off" on a neighbor if I don't decide to keep him – or do I take him to the auction barn and just unload him there?

George

I stopped reading the thread when I got to this post.

Lots of average about him and I give a damm about pigmentation - it is not always a panacea.

As a person who does not pay a lot of attention to EPD info and is not usually interested in pampered crap that cannot live without grain and high protein grass - this guy is interesting to me.

Nope - this guy lives on rough ground - I do not want to see him with grain in him - makes him a fake in my opinion and we see that with fat greasy bulls in pictures all the time - he needs to live outdoors on what is there - that makes him real to me - breed him to your heifers and see what happens - if he turns out call me. Maybe we can see how to get him or a few semen straws over the border and not break the bank.

I just picked up a few hundred bucks worth of semen from Northern Rancher - he does have some good "rough stock" that does not need a silver spoon life style to make it where it counts - in the field.

Your bull is far better than 90% of what we see here and for that matter maybe 95%

If we saw more animals in their working clothes that looked like this we could see an overall improvement in the herds of this continent.

The vast number of which live in pastures of hundreds of acres in size, are not hand fed, not sheltered and certainly not even seen for days upon end - I like an animal that can do that.

You can keep your greasy bulls at home - they may look pretty but they often fall apart when they need to pick up the pace - just because a bull is big and fat in a picture does not mean he will make good calves - I want my bull to breed even when he is tired, sore and hungry - I want my calves to hit the ground and live - even when I do not get a chance to see them for a long period of time.

I want to see some of this guys calves if you have the time and patience and money to do it.

And yes - we are getting out of cows - it just seems to be taking longer than planned! 8)

Regards

Bez+

Bez- I never thought I would ever disagree with you, but I probably will have to this time.

There are plenty of bulls (many of which I've seen in person) that make it on pasture alone and look lots better than this guy. Grain or no grain, this bull lacks many of the traits the BEEF Industry needs.

George, you have two other nice herd bulls that are much more superior in quality than the bull you've posted. I'd let this one go.

 

[Bez+]

Bez- I never thought I would ever disagree with you, but I probably will have to this time.

There are plenty of bulls (many of which I've seen in person) that make it on pasture alone and look lots better than this guy. Grain or no grain, this bull lacks many of the traits the BEEF Industry needs.

George, you have two other nice herd bulls that are much more superior in quality than the bull you've posted. I'd let this one go.

Heck CPL - sometimes I disagree with myself!



Bez+

 

[HerefordSire]

This bull could be worth much more than he appears because of his genetic material and potential. Many here may be discounting him because of two photos. This makes me think the posters do not understand genetics and EPDs and or are basing their opinion on looks. For example, without knowing what type of rib-eye area the bull actually has, just by imagining what this type of cross could produce, would be a much higher rib-eye area than most any other posters here.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Wonder how many on this forum would raise bulls in the same manner this one was raised? If they did wonder what they would look like.

 

[alacattleman]

Wonder how many on this forum would raise bulls in the same manner this one was raised? If they did wonder what they would look like.

personally i like the fact he was raised that way

 

[Keren]

I've been trying to avoid this thread but I cant anymore.

Firstly, Bez I get what you are saying, and what the breeder of this bull is saying as well, that this guy has merit in the fact that he is a whole lot easier keeping, and grows better on pasture, than his drop mates.

But - if you look long and hard enough, you can find bulls who have that quality whilst also being more structurally sound than this bull.

I'm heading out to see the cattle today - and I will show you a few young bulls who display masculinity and plenty of muscle at only 8 - 9 months old. So far their feeding program has been mum's milk and grass (mum's werent receiving any supplement). They are now on the show team so I concede that they have been started on grain, however it has only been a week on grain and it still gives you an indication of their growth beforehand on pasture alone.

Now about the Aust vs US beef production. I dont pretend to know much about your beef production. What I do know, I learned from the coach of the meat judging team from the University of Illinois (sp? apologies) who I was fortunate enough to meet a few years ago when the team came across to Australia to compete in our Australasian Intercollegiate Meat Judging competition (and flogged our butts btw).

The beef you produce for domestic consumption is higher quality than ours; I dont deny that at all. Your domestic beef is highly highly marbed and grain fed. In contrast the domestic beef produced in Australia has no marbling, is very lean, and predominantly grass fed. Our domestic consumers will not buy marbled meat, so unfortunately that is what we have to produce.

But a few things were stated about our export beef which was incorrect. As 3waycross's article said, we are the #2 world beef exporter, second only to Brazil. About 2/3 of the beef produced in Australia is exported. Our biggest market is the JapOx, which is HIGHLY MARBLED, LONG GRAIN FED WAGYU BEEF. I worked in one of these feedlots, trust me that beef is marbled, and super high quality. As Aussie said earlier, we own a huge part of the JapOx market since the US BSE scare forced you guys away several years ago. The health status of Australia (so easy to keep since we are an island) is one of the reasons we do so well on the export market. Our other export markets are Korea (lower marbled, grass fed beef) and US (same as Korea) and a small amount goes to EU. I was gonna find some figures and graphs for you but my computer is throwing a wobbly. Maybe this afternoon.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

I do myself alacattleman. Our nations cowherd seems to have a protein addiction.

 

[hillsdown]

OK I am going to regret this as I hate all this bullsyte. BUT.

Keren your market is for grass fed because you can sell it cheaper, not necessarily because your consumer wants it. If we could do choice and prime grain fed for the same or less as your select cut grass fed you would see a different export market. Now if the demand was for quality grain (especially barley) fed beef we could under cut you, as your country would never be able to raise enough of their own grain to compete with even a minimal market.

One other thing, if some other countries would actually test for BSE < BECAUSE YOU HAVE IT TOO >and actually report the findings you will have markets shut down faster than you can say BOO ,especially Japan.


Now I am out of this,,,,,,, as the whole world market is based on symantics and NOT quality beef COST and CHEAP imports rule the world ..If that was not true then why is very product imported around the world pretty much says made in China.

If we all could stop this p@ssing match and maybe join together, we might be able to do something about our beef industries world wide...

BTW ,George do you really give a flying bats butt as to what people really think on here ?? Some of them do not even post pics of their own animals but claim to be experts ( and no not pointing out anyone from any country BTW) and some have only 2-3 head, which meens they are not even hobbiests. Do what you want with the bull ,as you will anyways.

Sorry for the jack. :wave:

 

[mnmtranching]

So George tell us the rest of the story...

The rest of the story….

This bull is a home grown product of a Keynote son/Pure Gold daughter cross. He is the only calf his dam has had that I didn't totally fall "in love" with, as a calf. I consider her my best cow. Although his parents both have pigment, he has absolutely none. His overall "masculinity look" is lacking – much the same as the bull that El_Putzo posted here earlier. "Red" pretty much nailed it – kinda average.

But he does have one quality that I'd sure like to improve in my cattle….and I think most anyone in our area would in theirs. He has the ability to stay in decent shape and continue to grow in some really sparse pasture conditions – and nothing else added. That ability was already showing in him, compared to his peers, by the time he was weaning age – and it is the reason he didn't go auction with the rest of his male peers.

After a week in the lot for weaning and to gentle him some, I threw him out with his older full brother, that I had also kept as a herd bull prospect, in a grazed down native pasture, the worst pasture I had, and more or less forgot them both over the winter, except for mineral. I put a protein tub out for them, but they didn't use it for some reason. That's the way I've decided to develop bulls for my own use. I figure if they can make it in those kind of conditions, they will do OK when they are out with the cows in better grazing conditions.

We sold breeding bulls for 25 years. I know that's not the way to develop bulls to sell – if you want to impress your buyers. But if some breeders did that, it would sure give them a more "honest" look at the cattle they're producing. Doing so has sure forced me to look at mine differently. I keep seeing that ad on CT for "Copyright"! I've taken the link and downloaded his video a few times and I'm always very impressed. But I know that bull wasn't developed in conditions like this bull was and I always wonder what he'd look like if he had been? Maybe not "average", but I'd wager he'd be less impressive.

Many of you don't have the ability to "test" your animals in those kind of conditions anyway. Your pasture, climate, and grazing conditions aren't that "poor".

Anyway, it is coming to decision time on this bull. I have 15 heifers that need to bred next March/April. I had kept this bull as a prospect to breed them. I have other options – the best is probably to sync and AI them, then let my Star Lake bull clean them up, although he's likely to have just come through a tough winter and breeding season himself. Or I could go out and buy another bull prospect.

Do I keep this bull through another winter and see how he develops? Do I "pawn him off" on a neighbor if I don't decide to keep him – or do I take him to the auction barn and just unload him there?

George

I stopped reading the thread when I got to this post.

Lots of average about him and I give a damm about pigmentation - it is not always a panacea.

As a person who does not pay a lot of attention to EPD info and is not usually interested in pampered crap that cannot live without grain and high protein grass - this guy is interesting to me.

Nope - this guy lives on rough ground - I do not want to see him with grain in him - makes him a fake in my opinion and we see that with fat greasy bulls in pictures all the time - he needs to live outdoors on what is there - that makes him real to me - breed him to your heifers and see what happens - if he turns out call me. Maybe we can see how to get him or a few semen straws over the border and not break the bank.

I just picked up a few hundred bucks worth of semen from Northern Rancher - he does have some good "rough stock" that does not need a silver spoon life style to make it where it counts - in the field.

Your bull is far better than 90% of what we see here and for that matter maybe 95%

If we saw more animals in their working clothes that looked like this we could see an overall improvement in the herds of this continent.

The vast number of which live in pastures of hundreds of acres in size, are not hand fed, not sheltered and certainly not even seen for days upon end - I like an animal that can do that.

You can keep your greasy bulls at home - they may look pretty but they often fall apart when they need to pick up the pace - just because a bull is big and fat in a picture does not mean he will make good calves - I want my bull to breed even when he is tired, sore and hungry - I want my calves to hit the ground and live - even when I do not get a chance to see them for a long period of time.

I want to see some of this guys calves if you have the time and patience and money to do it.

And yes - we are getting out of cows - it just seems to be taking longer than planned! 8)

Regards

Bez+

Bez, You hit the nail right square on the head here.