chippie
Well-known member
It's the nicotine that is supposed to kill the worms. Now a days, tobacco products are not the same as they were 100 plus years ago.
Apple cider vinegar
- Thread starter david922
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chippie
Well-known member
Is the author William G. Winter, D.V.M.? If so, he lost his veterinary medicine license.
http://www.vetmed.state.mn.us/portals/22/Winter.pdf
Here is his website: http://willwinter.com/
According to his website, he retired from Veterinary practice in Minnesota. What it doesn't say is that it was mandatory.
I wouldn't consider him a reliable source.
(it's still too hot to go outside to work, kitchen's clean, dinner's cooking, so I am wasting time here.)
http://www.vetmed.state.mn.us/portals/22/Winter.pdf
Here is his website: http://willwinter.com/
According to his website, he retired from Veterinary practice in Minnesota. What it doesn't say is that it was mandatory.
I wouldn't consider him a reliable source.
(it's still too hot to go outside to work, kitchen's clean, dinner's cooking, so I am wasting time here.)
BAMABORN
Member
I heard a webcast that Gene Sollak (maybe sollock) gave last year. He said that was all they used. He didn't like anything that might hurt his dung beatles. He put 1oz per gallon for 24hrs, per month.
We are trying it this summer. Our young heifers love it. Granted, we don't have a large herd so it does not cost us much. We did drench worm this spring though. Our cows are fat and shiney, so if it
is not doing anything, it is not hurting them any how.
We are trying it this summer. Our young heifers love it. Granted, we don't have a large herd so it does not cost us much. We did drench worm this spring though. Our cows are fat and shiney, so if it
is not doing anything, it is not hurting them any how.
Richardin52
Well-known member
I find it odd that some people will question something so many farmers say works for them and at the same time these people use drugs and poisons on themselves and their animals if they have any. We hear about drugs every year that are pulled back off the market that have ended up doing more harm than good. But mention something that seems to work for a number of farmers and your all over it.
These drugs being pulled off the market have all been tested and found to be safe and effective by the way.
These drugs being pulled off the market have all been tested and found to be safe and effective by the way.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIlEFK0KZ6s
Step back non-believers or the rain will never come.........
Tonya Tucker _ Lizzy and the Rain Man 1975
Step back non-believers or the rain will never come.........
Tonya Tucker _ Lizzy and the Rain Man 1975
chippie
Well-known member
Richardin52":19vk8j3f said:
No one is questioning it. Several years ago a group of friends got on the Apple Cider kick. It was the cure all for everything. That was when I tried it for our horses. Guess what it didn't do what was claimed. Their horses still had intestinal worms, were still bothered by flies, and those that had problems that the ACV was supposed to fix still had those too.
Look at it this way. If ACV actually did what is claimed, the pharmaceutical companies would be utilizing it in their products.
I have a friend who is "all natural". She worms her dairy goats with herbs. Needless to say her favorite one died to parasite overload.
An animal can be loaded with parasites and still look great. I found that out first hand when my mare coliced. The vet did a fecal and it was positive.
That's fine that you have the money to experiment with the stuff. I hope that it works for you.
Gene Sollock utilizes rotational grazing, moving to a new pasture every two days which in itself is going to reduce parasites. Continuous overgrazed pastures will increase the need for worming, and goats......well they just seem to live to die of worms.
This message is dedicated to the person who names him(her)self as Lucky_P and declares being a veterinary.
Apple Cider Vinegar (ACV) has a traditional use manifested in several books such as "Folk Medicine"
written by a Medical Doctor named D.C. Jarvis. It is not a new thing.
Today it being recommended by several consultants specially in Organic as well as Sustainable Dairy production such as Jerry Brunetti (Agri-Dynamics).
I would strongly recommend reading his article "True Protein X Funny Protein" published by ACRES USA
and accessible on line at www.acresusa.com, where he, once more recommends ACV for dairy cattle.
ACV contains inumerous nutrients, specially minerals extremely important to animal nutrition which are, by the way, lacking in most soils. Besides it, it also contains many vitamins and organic acids, specially acetic acid that do in fact have a proven effect in facilitating digestion.
Finally, instead of going thru the hasle of trying to use science to prove your point when suggesting a double blind study, you could very well just "ask" the cow since you are supposedly a Vet.
Give the cow two options : water without ACV and with ACV and see which one of the two the cow will prefer.
By the way, I prefer the triple blind study much better than the double blind study.
Regards
Jose Luiz
Apple Cider Vinegar (ACV) has a traditional use manifested in several books such as "Folk Medicine"
written by a Medical Doctor named D.C. Jarvis. It is not a new thing.
Today it being recommended by several consultants specially in Organic as well as Sustainable Dairy production such as Jerry Brunetti (Agri-Dynamics).
I would strongly recommend reading his article "True Protein X Funny Protein" published by ACRES USA
and accessible on line at www.acresusa.com, where he, once more recommends ACV for dairy cattle.
ACV contains inumerous nutrients, specially minerals extremely important to animal nutrition which are, by the way, lacking in most soils. Besides it, it also contains many vitamins and organic acids, specially acetic acid that do in fact have a proven effect in facilitating digestion.
Finally, instead of going thru the hasle of trying to use science to prove your point when suggesting a double blind study, you could very well just "ask" the cow since you are supposedly a Vet.
Give the cow two options : water without ACV and with ACV and see which one of the two the cow will prefer.
By the way, I prefer the triple blind study much better than the double blind study.
Regards
Jose Luiz
Paul Bragg.....the health guru of several years ago promoted it very heavily, he lived into his late nineties, then died in an accident, he also fasted regularly and ate almost exclusively raw fruits and vegetables, however, it had to be the naturally brewed stuff 'with the mother' and not the regular ACV off of any store shelf. I have never tried it, but I may some day, I'm radical enough to try it. If you like it then keep doing it, but you won't get a lot of encouragement here on this forum, I'm here to tell ya.
Funny protein....funny you mention that. I used to have several conversations with Leonard Ridzon before he died several years ago and he would mention "funny protein" and that all protein was not created equal. i think rattlesnake poison is something like 90+% pure protein. Interesting, I hadn't heard that term in years. In the day when everything is about protein, everything seems to be based on protein, which it is important....all protein is not created equal.
greybeard
Well-known member
I haven't had the flu in over 20 years. Is it because I go thru a ritual of getting up in the morning, going out on the back porch and having 2-3 cups of coffee while smoking a few cigs--or just MAYBE........ it's because I just haven't been exposed to influenza?
People whose livestock aren't exposed to many parasites won't have a parasite problem whether they latch on to some kind of hokus pokus, all natural, wive's tale remedy/preventative or not--till all of a sudden, they do have a problem. The worst thing about posting these miracle all natural remedies is that these boards are frequented by a lot of young beginners, and it's read as fact instead of the hearsay it actually is, and since many of the younguns don't know any better or don't have much $$ to spend, they go this route down the pathway to disaster and a high vet bill or backhoe dug hole. All on account someone felt inclined to post an old wive's tale on the internet for all of posterity to read.
http://www.beeflambnz.com/Documents/Far ... estock.pdf
http://www.scsrpc.org/SCSRPC/Publications/part5.htm
Follow the links:
http://www.sheepandgoat.com/ACSRPC/Resources/Alt.html
Here's a related video--you'll see the connection:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmx4twCK3_I
Now excuse me, while I go try to find a dead cat to swing around my head. Got a wart on my wrist and I hear a swingin dead cat will get rid of it for me.
:hide:
People whose livestock aren't exposed to many parasites won't have a parasite problem whether they latch on to some kind of hokus pokus, all natural, wive's tale remedy/preventative or not--till all of a sudden, they do have a problem. The worst thing about posting these miracle all natural remedies is that these boards are frequented by a lot of young beginners, and it's read as fact instead of the hearsay it actually is, and since many of the younguns don't know any better or don't have much $$ to spend, they go this route down the pathway to disaster and a high vet bill or backhoe dug hole. All on account someone felt inclined to post an old wive's tale on the internet for all of posterity to read.
http://www.beeflambnz.com/Documents/Far ... estock.pdf
http://www.scsrpc.org/SCSRPC/Publications/part5.htm
Follow the links:
http://www.sheepandgoat.com/ACSRPC/Resources/Alt.html
Here's a related video--you'll see the connection:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmx4twCK3_I
Now excuse me, while I go try to find a dead cat to swing around my head. Got a wart on my wrist and I hear a swingin dead cat will get rid of it for me.
:hide:
Lucky_P
Well-known member
"People whose livestock aren't exposed to many parasites won't have a parasite problem whether they latch on to some kind of hokus pokus, all natural, wive's tale remedy/preventative or not--till all of a sudden, they do have a problem. The worst thing about posting these miracle all natural remedies is that these boards are frequented by a lot of young beginners, and it's read as fact instead of the hearsay it actually is, and since many of the younguns don't know any better or don't have much $$ to spend, they go this route down the pathway to disaster and a high vet bill or backhoe dug hole. All on account someone felt inclined to post an old wive's tale on the internet for all of posterity to read."
Bingo. This is exactly why I stand my ground on issues such as this. In this case, the ACV won't cause any harm - but it's not a miracle compound, capable of achieving all the things its proponents ascribe to it, and certainly not at the dilutions they're recommending. But, if 'believers' are counting on it, the animals they are responsible for may suffer needlessly.
Greybeard,
If swinging the dead cat doesn't take care of that wart, try rubbing it with the lining from a chicken gizzard and bury that under the eaves of the house on the dark of the moon. - Folk Medicine from my grandmother(who lived to 92, smoked a pipe, and ate bacon and eggs for breakfast every day, with butter on her toast - OK, she didn't really smoke a pipe, but my grandfather chewed and smoked and he outlived her).
Bingo. This is exactly why I stand my ground on issues such as this. In this case, the ACV won't cause any harm - but it's not a miracle compound, capable of achieving all the things its proponents ascribe to it, and certainly not at the dilutions they're recommending. But, if 'believers' are counting on it, the animals they are responsible for may suffer needlessly.
Greybeard,
If swinging the dead cat doesn't take care of that wart, try rubbing it with the lining from a chicken gizzard and bury that under the eaves of the house on the dark of the moon. - Folk Medicine from my grandmother(who lived to 92, smoked a pipe, and ate bacon and eggs for breakfast every day, with butter on her toast - OK, she didn't really smoke a pipe, but my grandfather chewed and smoked and he outlived her).
greybeard
Well-known member
Remember Euell Gibbons--the natural food advocate that used to be the spokesman for Grape Nuts?
He lived to a ripe old age too, if you call 64 old.
He lived to a ripe old age too, if you call 64 old.
Around riverside ca the smog used to be awfull, maybe still is. A weather guy there once ommented that it was so clear that day that you could see Euell Gibbons grazing on mt san jacinto. Most people thought it was funny, a lot took exception to it thoughgreybeard":1h196ew0 said:
chippie
Well-known member
The real thing is expensive. I needed some for a recipe and the only place that I found it was at Whole Foods. The price was almost $4 for 16 ounces.
The apple flavored stuff sold at grocery stores is apple flavored white vinegar.
The apple flavored stuff sold at grocery stores is apple flavored white vinegar.
greybeard
Well-known member
(from another thread--I didn't want to hijack it there)
I agree, that we depend way too much on computers and other modern devices--especially those using advanced microchip technology, but we have to be careful about throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Keep in mind, that it was 'grandpa' that gave us the brucellosis outbreaks where 70% of the North American herds were estimated to be infected, the Hoof and Mouth epidemics of the early 1900s, and the dust bowl in the 20s-30s.
It is in areas of the world today, like China and North Africa, where they are still doing things "like our grandpas did" that these controllable diseases are still very prevalent tho we do still have an occasional small outbreak in modern nations. China, now embarking on a self sustainability program for food, are making the same mistakes grandpa did--huge areas in the northern part of that country have turned into blowing duststorms and the soil won't grow crap now.
Grandpa did us a great service in developing our modern breeds and breeding practices, and started us down the road to EPDs and such, but let's face it, Grandpa made some serious errors as well, and they very easily could have been much much worse had science and medicine not stepped in to curtail some of his bad practices. "Grandpa", is a sword that cuts both ways.
ACV doesn't hurt that I know of, but you could pour grape koolaid in the water and get the same results and the cows will drink it just as well--but then, they'll drink from a muddy hoofprint too, if it's their only option.
[warning-thread hijack alert!]Beef Man":1on01ra4 said:
I agree, that we depend way too much on computers and other modern devices--especially those using advanced microchip technology, but we have to be careful about throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Keep in mind, that it was 'grandpa' that gave us the brucellosis outbreaks where 70% of the North American herds were estimated to be infected, the Hoof and Mouth epidemics of the early 1900s, and the dust bowl in the 20s-30s.
It is in areas of the world today, like China and North Africa, where they are still doing things "like our grandpas did" that these controllable diseases are still very prevalent tho we do still have an occasional small outbreak in modern nations. China, now embarking on a self sustainability program for food, are making the same mistakes grandpa did--huge areas in the northern part of that country have turned into blowing duststorms and the soil won't grow crap now.
Grandpa did us a great service in developing our modern breeds and breeding practices, and started us down the road to EPDs and such, but let's face it, Grandpa made some serious errors as well, and they very easily could have been much much worse had science and medicine not stepped in to curtail some of his bad practices. "Grandpa", is a sword that cuts both ways.
ACV doesn't hurt that I know of, but you could pour grape koolaid in the water and get the same results and the cows will drink it just as well--but then, they'll drink from a muddy hoofprint too, if it's their only option.
There is no hokus pokus here, Sir. I do have a Master Degree from one of the best agricultural universities in the USA which is MSU and I know what I am talking about whether someones likes it or not.
I also do have other academic degrees and if you want to use this yardstick I can guarantee you will loose.
ACV is a good thing. Period.
Traditional usage for centuries speaks highly on its behalf. Period.
If you want to talk about cost then is a totally different issue but if you don't have money to buy ACV
you better look for another activity rather than raising farm animals..
I also do not need any sort of encouragement as suggested by one of the participants in this forum.
In fact I don't need any.
I just felt compelled to write because I happen to notice the arrogant tone of one of the participants towards a person who got good results with ACV and inocently and candidly wanted to share his findings with the everyone.
I have found the answer to the person who generated this link (ACV) totally unecessary and out of proportion to say the least. I bet 100% he (or she) is Magnesium defficient and/or have a bad liver.
You definitely would't see more on this list because like in a chicken house you also have your hierarchy and the gurus tells you what is right and what is wrong . Below the gurus you have another
class that are the guys who always praise the word of the gurus. There is a terminology that properly describes this kind of person but I will not use it here.
I simply don't have time for that.
Sorry for any misunderstanding I might have caused and goodbye.
Jose Luiz
I also do have other academic degrees and if you want to use this yardstick I can guarantee you will loose.
ACV is a good thing. Period.
Traditional usage for centuries speaks highly on its behalf. Period.
If you want to talk about cost then is a totally different issue but if you don't have money to buy ACV
you better look for another activity rather than raising farm animals..
I also do not need any sort of encouragement as suggested by one of the participants in this forum.
In fact I don't need any.
I just felt compelled to write because I happen to notice the arrogant tone of one of the participants towards a person who got good results with ACV and inocently and candidly wanted to share his findings with the everyone.
I have found the answer to the person who generated this link (ACV) totally unecessary and out of proportion to say the least. I bet 100% he (or she) is Magnesium defficient and/or have a bad liver.
You definitely would't see more on this list because like in a chicken house you also have your hierarchy and the gurus tells you what is right and what is wrong . Below the gurus you have another
class that are the guys who always praise the word of the gurus. There is a terminology that properly describes this kind of person but I will not use it here.
I simply don't have time for that.
Sorry for any misunderstanding I might have caused and goodbye.
Jose Luiz
