Anyone have a favorite picked,Holden,Cooper

[Hereford76]

but his 108 Lb. actual BW

.... and he sold for 27000. that bull would have cost me $0.0027 for the rubber to casterate him right after i weighed him. must of been a heck of a bull. what was so special about him?

 

[Herefords.US]

but his 108 Lb. actual BW

.... and he sold for 27000. that bull would have cost me $0.0027 for the rubber to casterate him right after i weighed him. must of been a heck of a bull. what was so special about him?

I liked his extra depth and appearance of thickness of muscle. But his BW being that high, in relation to his peers, puts him in the category of a "wait and see" bull for me.

George

 

[WichitaLineMan]

I am not picking on Coopers. For the most part I like their cattle, probably even better than Holdens. But, I thought this bull looked a little "sow bellied". I'll likely never sell a $27,000 bull (or buy one) so it is only my opinion.

 

[stockman12]

It is the consensus of a lot of people that a 108 pund birth weight at Coopers will probably not give you that big of bw's. I have used a Cooper with a birth weight of over a 100 on heifers and never had a lick of problems.

If you would use this bull and take the 108 as gospel, would you also expect a 1427 pund yearling weight on his calves in your herd.

That being said I would not use the bull, He has to be an extreme bull. I do not want that extreme of a bull

 

[stockman12]

One of the bulls I would have to sat is the sleeper of the sale would be 982. There might be others and after I completely go through the results I'll see about others.

But 982 is gonna be tough to beat and he brought 4500.

 

[WichitaLineMan]

999 was a similar bull to the 9117 bull I liked. He brought less than $6000 about $4500 if memory serves me. I did not write his sale price down.

 

[stockman12]

My book says 4750 for 999

 

[Hereford76]

It is the consensus of a lot of people that a 108 pund birth weight at Coopers will probably not give you that big of bw's. I have used a Cooper with a birth weight of over a 100 on heifers and never had a lick of problems.

If you would use this bull and take the 108 as gospel, would you also expect a 1427 pund yearling weight on his calves in your herd.

That being said I would not use the bull, He has to be an extreme bull. I do not want that extreme of a bull

I understand you completely... i just think it is funny sometimes. A few years ago i didn't get by best bull sold cause he had a 98lb bw. his first calf crop averaged 80.5lbs at home. I think a bull like this cooper bull with the 108 lb birth weight probably wouldn't stamp them out at that either on my cows. i am a true believer environment and management style plays into actual bw's more than its given credit for.

I was just curious cause usually it takes something special to overlook a bw like that - thats all... don't tell me it was a 1400 some pound yw that did it was it?

 

[stockman12]

I would not want that bull, it is just too extreme in all aspects. What size of daughters will he produce. If I was to pick a bull from Coopers or Holdens, I think I would pick one down in the order. A little like what the commercial guys were taking home. I do think there are many breeders around that are breeding those type of cattle....you just don't get the Lexus or Lincoln name. But you will get cattle that will WORK. From what I can tell guys like h76 and Doug T are putting out.

I can remeber so many times guys were going to Denver and looking for bulls but they looked on the hill when they should have been looking for their bull down in the Yards

 

[Herefords.US]

It is the consensus of a lot of people that a 108 pund birth weight at Coopers will probably not give you that big of bw's. I have used a Cooper with a birth weight of over a 100 on heifers and never had a lick of problems.

If you would use this bull and take the 108 as gospel, would you also expect a 1427 pund yearling weight on his calves in your herd.

That being said I would not use the bull, He has to be an extreme bull. I do not want that extreme of a bull

I think "extreme" is probably a good description of him. Since he is the product of a lower BW cow and a bigger BW sire, he might end up anywhere on the board on BW and calving ease. His sire has a +6.1 BW, with some accuracy, but only has a -.8 on CE (with little accuracy). It'll be interesting to see how he turns out as a breeding bull. Does anyone know who bought 994W? I was betting on a syndicate/group.

It's awfully late, but I actually took time today to look at Cooper's catalog. I really like the bull WLM picked out as well. He's one of those prospects you could bet on - and hope every daughter raises calves like his "mama" does!

I noticed the sale results were posted on Holden's web-site. I probably liked the bull that Spencer bought at Holden's the best this year, based on the videos. And the Holden high seller wouldn't have made my top ten. But the fact that Holden retained an interest in him means there's something there I can't see.

i'm always impressed with the quality and consistency of their bulls from top to bottom - and the fact that they keep and sell 3/4 of their bull calf crop each year.

George

 

[stockman12]

Jim Carr NE on 994

 

[Doug Thorson]

Speaking of bulls that kinda went under the radar, 932 had a lot of numbers that fit, but only brought 6250. If there are any eyewitness reports on him, I would like to hear.
Just to explain, 932 has 0.5 BW 51 WW 91YW and keeps milk reasonable at 23.
His actual BW was 76 while his WR was 105 and Yearling ratio was 106.
As there was no picture and no big writeup I guess that there was something there that wasn't top end.

 

[BSKDixie]

Not picking on Holden or Coopers both are top notch, but another good Montana Hereford guy to look at for young bulls is Churchill Cattle Co. based in Manhattan, MT they have some great young bulls up there, I'm pretty sure they have a website also

 

[Doug Thorson]

Churchill bought the 955 Cooper bull for $27,000

 

[Herefords.US]

Not picking on Holden or Coopers both are top notch, but another good Montana Hereford guy to look at for young bulls is Churchill Cattle Co. based in Manhattan, MT they have some great young bulls up there, I'm pretty sure they have a website also

Got their Private Treaty Sale Catalog and videos in the mail not long ago. You can see it and the videos online at cattleinmotion.com

Catalog:

http://www.cattleinmotion.com/http:/%2Fwww.cattleinmotion.com/cat-churchill-cattle-company-100217

Videos:
http://www.cattleinmotion.com/videos-churchill-cattle-091230


George

 

[Ned Jr.]

On the 994 bull. I understand it's hard to get past a 108 lb BW but isn't anyone going to consider or at least mention the fact he was an ET calf???

 

[rocket2222]

On the 994 bull. I understand it's hard to get past a 108 lb BW but isn't anyone going to consider or at least mention the fact he was an ET calf???

Is there any data that shows how a recip can effect the birth weight of a et calf. :?:

 

[Doug Thorson]

Is there any data that shows how a recip can effect the birth weight of a et calf.

This isn't a scientific study, but I had 2 different neighbors that allowed Leachman to put embryos in their cows. One guy had a lot of upper 80 and low 90 calves with an occasional 100. The other guy had a lot of 100-120 with a few in the 90s.
Those cows were mixed for the synchronizing process and the chute sorted who got what embryo, first 10 up were bred one way, next 10 and so on.

 

[Ned Jr.]

On the 994 bull. I understand it's hard to get past a 108 lb BW but isn't anyone going to consider or at least mention the fact he was an ET calf???

Is there any data that shows how a recip can effect the birth weight of a et calf. :?:

A recip can and does have an effect on birth weight. I've always been told you shouldn't even look at the birth weight on a ET calf, it is hard not to do. Most breeders don't even give the birth weights on ET calves because they're somewhat irrelevant. People looking for bulls should go more by the epd's on ET bulls.

This hits on the subject under "selection of donors and recipients"

http://ars.sdstate.edu/BeefExt/ExEx/ex2001.htm

 

[Herefords.US]

On the 994 bull. I understand it's hard to get past a 108 lb BW but isn't anyone going to consider or at least mention the fact he was an ET calf???

I considered it, had that not been a factor I would probably be even more negative on his BW. His full ET brothers had actual BWs of 96 and 97 lbs. - which means he was over 10% higher than they were. There was only one of his peers in the sale who equaled his 108 lb. BW and very few were 100 lb or more. His sire is showing that he's going to sire big birthweight calves and just how easy calving they are going to be is still in question, based on his EPDs.

All of that taken into consideration makes him a bull that I would want to "wait and see" what his own calves do, in terms of BW, before I would consider using him. He's definitely a hoss, and it doesn't surprise me that he topped the sale, but he might prove to be too much of a hoss!

On Hereford ET calves, I think you still have to look at the actual BW and consider it in relation to his "peer group". I think it's certainly a better indication than the EPDs alone -since actual BW isn't even factored into them in Herefords because they are ET calves. Other breeds do use actual BW in factoring BW EPDs in ET calves, so I would say whether the recipient dam is a factor - and how much - is undetermined.

George