Anyone have a favorite picked,Holden,Cooper

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While I have a tendency to agree with the bw on et calves. One has to notice that the yearly weight coincides with a big bw and then when you add the 4.1 epd. I still think he is an awful extreme bull. I would love to see some calves out of him. I wouldn't mind having a few but if I am going to AI I think I'd use another of Coopers bulls. Time will tell on this bull and am glad that he is a bull rather than a steer. I would love to see how he pans out. Who kows maybe someday I would use him, just not yet.
 
BSK yes Dale has some nice bulls. I also got his catalog and DVD. Just wish there was more video of #987, for $10,000 you would really want to see more of that bull.
Got a bull from Dale and his calves are hitting the ground now. Pretty happy with them. Heaviest so far is 98#.

There is also Marvin Feddes down in Manhattan. They have some nice bulls too.
 
I just talked to Fraser's about that subscription and they had no idea. They are gonna contact Brad and have it waived I believe. Murray wasnt to excited when I told him.
 
BIZIN":17e47if7 said:
I just talked to Fraser's about that subscription and they had no idea. They are gonna contact Brad and have it waived I believe. Murray wasnt to excited when I told him.

Good deal! I hope Ace and some others contact them too - to add support. Together we can get that whole subscription idea stopped. We've all just got to stand up together and say "No Way!"

George
 
Herefords.US":2k1gw96g said:
BIZIN":2k1gw96g said:
I just talked to Fraser's about that subscription and they had no idea. They are gonna contact Brad and have it waived I believe. Murray wasnt to excited when I told him.

Good deal! I hope Ace and some others contact them too - to add support. Together we can get that whole subscription idea stopped. We've all just got to stand up together and say "No Way!"

George

cross that one off the list - now can we get rid of obama!
 
Hereford76":1ohr5oqa said:
Herefords.US":1ohr5oqa said:
BIZIN":1ohr5oqa said:
I just talked to Fraser's about that subscription and they had no idea. They are gonna contact Brad and have it waived I believe. Murray wasnt to excited when I told him.

Good deal! I hope Ace and some others contact them too - to add support. Together we can get that whole subscription idea stopped. We've all just got to stand up together and say "No Way!"

George

cross that one off the list - now can we get rid of obama!

This probably will be removed for being political - but - let's see, based on the order of Presidential succession:

Obama, then Biden, then Pelosi, then Senator Byrd, then Hillary Clinton, then Geithner - any way I can look at it down that far, I'd say we're probably much better off with the President we've got, at least until the 2012 elections! :banana: :banana: :banana:

George
 
Hereford76":10b4j6vt said:
well how bout the whole shabang then

Well, our governor mentioned secession in his primary campaign. I can't believe anyone would take anything he said very seriously - but I guess I'm in the minority there, as he won the primary pretty handily.

George
 
Doug Thorson":1hau3aqi said:
Is there any data that shows how a recip can effect the birth weight of a et calf.

This isn't a scientific study, but I had 2 different neighbors that allowed Leachman to put embryos in their cows. One guy had a lot of upper 80 and low 90 calves with an occasional 100. The other guy had a lot of 100-120 with a few in the 90s.
Those cows were mixed for the synchronizing process and the chute sorted who got what embryo, first 10 up were bred one way, next 10 and so on.

That sounds more like herd management, than any genetic influence by the recip, one guy is either feeding more or feeding better quality, which is adding to the birth weight, that would apply anywhere on any cow, recip or not.
 
Ned Jr.":1l0pce92 said:
rocket2222":1l0pce92 said:
Ned Jr.":1l0pce92 said:
On the 994 bull. I understand it's hard to get past a 108 lb BW but isn't anyone going to consider or at least mention the fact he was an ET calf???

Is there any data that shows how a recip can effect the birth weight of a et calf. :?:

A recip can and does have an effect on birth weight. I've always been told you shouldn't even look at the birth weight on a ET calf, it is hard not to do. Most breeders don't even give the birth weights on ET calves because they're somewhat irrelevant. People looking for bulls should go more by the epd's on ET bulls.

This hits on the subject under "selection of donors and recipients"

http://ars.sdstate.edu/BeefExt/ExEx/ex2001.htm

Thanks for the link, good basic stuff. Pretty snazzy looking web site you now have btw. :clap:
 
That sounds more like herd management, than any genetic influence by the recip, one guy is either feeding more or feeding better quality, which is adding to the birth weight, that would apply anywhere on any cow, recip or not.


It wasn't feed because the guy that got all the big calves fed less hay and less quality than anyone in the country. He had a herd of Gelbviegh cows that had always been selected for performance while the other guy had Angus based cows that were highly maternal. The guy with the big calves put his best cows in the ET program while the other guy put his worst.
 
Doug Thorson":1cxfsj86 said:
It wasn't feed because the guy that got all the big calves fed less hay and less quality than anyone in the country. He had a herd of Gelbviegh cows that had always been selected for performance while the other guy had Angus based cows that were highly maternal. The guy with the big calves put his best cows in the ET program while the other guy put his worst.

So if we knew who the recipient cow was, and her previous calving history, it shouldn't be that hard to figure out if this bulls birth weight is real or not. Sure would like to see some real data/studies that show how much effect recips have on birth weights, Ned's link calls it "maternal environmental" effect on birth weights. To me that still bordering on management to some extent as well as weather and time of calving. One of my older cows always calves the heaviest calf no matter who she's bred too, obviously, her genetics are playing a big roll in this. If I'm understanding you correctly, if I used this cow as a recip, I would expect her ET calf to also weigh more at birth than if I'd used a cow that consistently calved lower birth weight calves under the same management conditions. To say that, there would almost have to be some sort of genetic effect, that shouldn't be there. I definitely need to understand this a little better, I'm considering flushing a couple of mine to speed up the herd building process. Off to Google.
 
Regarding a recipient dam's influence, her influence on weaning weight and yearling weight is without question. Judging how much influence you should "allow for" when a recipient dam is a particularly good or particularly bad mother would require a good working knowledge of the cattle involved, how they were managed in relation to each other, and the application of common sense. This is where "trust" of the breeder comes into play, as they and/or their herdsmen are probably the best ones to make that judgment. I see posts all the time in catalogues where the breeder says an ET calf is behind the others because his recipient dam didn't milk very well, etc.

However, in terms of actual BW, if the recipients are managed the same as the rest of the herd, I'm not at all sure the recipients will have that much influence on the calves actual BW, especially when being compared to other recipient dams of same breed and type. Certainly if a recipient is particularly easy fleshing or hard doing, in comparison to the others, they could have some effect. Or perhaps if they were another breed or completely different body type from the rest, that might make a difference. But again, this is where the knowledge of the cattle involved comes into play – and the application of common sense.

If I was serious in buying a bull like 994, I would sure be asking the breeder all those questions regarding his recipient dam – as well as seeking his own opinion why his BW was 10% higher than his 2 ET full brothers and higher than the rest of his ET peers. 32 of the 80 bulls selling in Cooper's sale were ET calves. I don't know what Cooper uses for recips, but IF the recipient cows were all of the same breed and general type, and managed the same, I'd say you'd have a pretty good basis for comparing the actual BW of their calves within the peer group.

George
 
I tried getting onto liveauctions.tv today and they still havent removed the subscription. They told Murray that they always removed it like a week before the sale and that it would be removed. Not impressed with live auctions
 

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