Another billion...

[TexasBred]

I guess maybe I'm a little slow on the pick-up as to how financial stuff works, but......

We keep hearing that the government can not afford $50 million a year to fund various programs. Say, maybe health care for children. And that's just fine. If the money ain't there, it ain't there.

But, at the same time, that same government can easily spend $50 Billion per month in Iraq, looking for imaginary WMDs. Where does this money come from?? If every man, woman, and child in the US kicked in $1,000,000 (which ain't very likely), how long would that finance the war effort?

These dollar amounts are just used as an example. I don't have a clue as to what stuff costs (except for a loaf of bread and a gallon of diesel). I just never have understood how this kind of thing works.

Really doesn't matter since congress WILL spend it regardless...personally I'd prefer to spend it in Iraq than give it to the illegals coming into the country.

The cost of the war in Iraq to you and me isn't a drop in the bucket compared to what we spend on the illegals


I rather doubt that. :?

.

Ken:

Perhaps President Theodore Roosevelt was correct when he stated that when they call roll in the Senate, the senators do not know whether to answer present or guilty.

Both senators Obama and Clinton have said they would not raise taxes if elected. They are pulling a real bait and switch. By repealing the Bush tax cuts, they will raise your taxes. Wake up.

There is a continuing, constant clamor regarding the war in Iraq concerning the tremendous cost in dollars.

Yes, Iraq is consuming a lot of dollars. I have yet to hear one voice, however, spreading alarm concerning the cost regarding the illegal alien problem.

There are many reasons: $11 billion to 22 billion each year spent on welfare of illegal aliens by state governments; $12 billion a year spent on education for children here illegally; $90 billion spent on illegal aliens for welfare and social services at taxpayers' expense.

Then there are billions spent yearly for food assistance programs, incarcerating illegal aliens, who have a crime rate 2½ times that of legal citizens.

All told, the total cost is a whopping $338.3 billion a year. Compare that with Iraq, you would be surprised.

And Growing !!!!!!!


Actually the war in Iraq AND Afghanistan cost about $60 billion a YEAR.

 

[1982vett]

That's what I was going to say. We are saddling our children's children with debt they can never repay. I don't think anyone thought about that when they got their "incentive" check.

That sermon has been preached on for 30-40 years (could be longer that is as far back as I can remember). Yet every spending bill that comes across the table is loaded up with crap instead of providing the essentials. All congress can come up with is pass out more money and point fingers. And their favorite line is "for the future of our children".

 

[EAT BEEF]

WE give them money to do bull $hit stuff that they think will get them elected or reelected.All they do pull our strings to get votes you get nothing from them unless you don't work.I'd like to get rid of of every last person in the giverment.I have no idea how to do it but it's about time we take back whats ours and tell them to get *&*^%^&.Most of us must be stupid we just keep working and handing over money.Who wants to do more when all they do is take more, yet we keep at it hopeing what little bit we don't give them will get us farther ahead.I'm sure they have it all figured out how much they can take from us and still keep the avg.person motivayed to work.THen when they can't get enough out of us they just print more and sell off a little more of us to china.

 

[Frankie]

Perhaps President Theodore Roosevelt was correct when he stated that when they call roll in the Senate, the senators do not know whether to answer present or guilty.

Both senators Obama and Clinton have said they would not raise taxes if elected. They are pulling a real bait and switch. By repealing the Bush tax cuts, they will raise your taxes. Wake up.

There is a continuing, constant clamor regarding the war in Iraq concerning the tremendous cost in dollars.

Yes, Iraq is consuming a lot of dollars. I have yet to hear one voice, however, spreading alarm concerning the cost regarding the illegal alien problem.

There are many reasons: $11 billion to 22 billion each year spent on welfare of illegal aliens by state governments; $12 billion a year spent on education for children here illegally; $90 billion spent on illegal aliens for welfare and social services at taxpayers' expense.

Then there are billions spent yearly for food assistance programs, incarcerating illegal aliens, who have a crime rate 2½ times that of legal citizens.

All told, the total cost is a whopping $338.3 billion a year. Compare that with Iraq, you would be surprised.

And Growing !!!!!!!


Actually the war in Iraq AND Afghanistan cost about $60 billion a YEAR.

We're spending $12billion a month in Iraq = $$144billion a year. Add the $1billion per month in Afghanistan and you get $156billion a year for those two wars. And Growing!!!

Now that we have established you're wrong there, I think you're wrong on your illegal immigrant figures, too. First, there's not a Federal government agency that tracks how much money is spent on them. I don't know of any state that keeps that sort of records either. But even if some do, they're not accurate enough to be used across the country. Second, a good portion of illegals live cash lives. They get paid in cash, they pay for everything in cash, including their medical care. Third, they work cheap. That should benefit those of us who buy products they produce. Fourth, those using fake social security numbers are paying into a program they'll never use.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23551693/

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/i/ ... aliens.htm

 

[john250]

In Missouri, Congressional earmarks have become the issue of an upstart candidate. This story indicates she (the candidate) is getting some traction.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1216338 ... torialPage
I'm seriously considering the libertarian in my district. He got a lot of votes last time and from his radio ads, I assume he will improve on that this time. He talks about the value of the dollar and rampant govt spending in the radio ads.

 

[VanC]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23551693/

Not arguing the figures here, but any source involving MSNBC should throw up a red flag for any well informed person. There isn't a more shamefully biased "news' organization out there......well.....maybe the NY Times. They might as well put up a sign that says Democratic headquarters. Heck, why do you think nobody watches them anymore? As for the book, it was authored by Joseph Stiglitz and Linda Bilmes. Stiglitz is a former member of the Clinton administration and teaches at Columbia. Bilmes teaches at Harvard. Anyone who pays the slightest bit of attention knows that anyone who even slightly resembles a conservative thinker is not allowed on the faculty of these, and many other schools. Especially in the liberal arts and humanities. Are they credible? I don't know, but I'm pretty skeptical.

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/i/illegal-aliens.htm

This one is laughable. Your source relates almost exclusively to Los Angeles County. How is that relevant to the illegal alien problem nationwide? Besides, most of the issues the website dealt with were deemed inconclusive. So what's the point? Why would you cite a source that doesn't even begin to prove your point, credible or not? Do you really think that just because you find something on the internet and provide us with a url that that should be the end of the discussion? Not in my book, at least not with such questionable sources.

 

[Alice]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23551693/

Not arguing the figures here, but any source involving MSNBC should throw up a red flag for any well informed person. There isn't a more shamefully biased "news' organization out there......well.....maybe the NY Times.

Or, maybe FOX...

They might as well put up a sign that says Democratic headquarters. Heck, why do you think nobody watches them anymore?

And FOX, what sign should they put up...let me guess...

As for the book, it was authored by Joseph Stiglitz and Linda Bilmes. Stiglitz is a former member of the Clinton administration and teaches at Columbia.

Not shabby...

Bilmes teaches at Harvard.

Definitely not shabby...

Anyone who pays the slightest bit of attention knows that anyone who even slightly resembles a conservative thinker is not allowed on the faculty of these, and many other schools. Especially in the liberal arts and humanities.

Van, I think the world of ya', but that is a crock. I've worked at 2 universities...5 years at TCU, and twice, totaling about 8 years at Tarleton State. AND, I worked in an area at both universities that let me deal with profs...the kind that liked to stand in the door of my office and pontificate. Let me assure you, there as many hard line conservatives as there are hard line liberals.

Are they credible?

That's up to the students to decide...students who come from conservative and liberal backgrounds. That's what liberal arts and humanities are all about, Van...they teach the students to think on their own. Don't tell me that students that come from conservative or liberal backgrounds don't question their profs (unless they just want to regurgitate what the profs offer so they can pass the test). I know...I've had to sit in on dean's conferences and take notes when these students brought complaints. And, I've also been the one to amass all of the student professor's reviews and discovered that many of these students are actually capable of making up their own minds ('cause I've had them stand in the door of my office and pontificate), no matter how they've been raised. Again, I think the world of ya', but to make statements like you've made is insulting to students...

I don't know, but I'm pretty skeptical.

No surprise there. ;-)

Alice

 

[TexasBred]

Alice I'm assuming you're either a professor or a secretary to some guy getting paid a million a year to research why cows fart and why it smells worse on days when the humidity is more than 50% and wind out of the north. Either way you should know that "students" learn what they are taught and many professors (especially Harvard, Yale, Columbia and many others) are top heavy with those liberal professors spewing forth their liberal idiotic ideas and thousands of ignorant minds unwittingly absorb it. Hitler was a master of this...others as well. Sort of like cooking a frog with slow constant heat....He never knows he's being cooked until it's too late to jump out of the water.....Perhaps Tarleton is one exception (I would certainly hope so). The phrase "liberal arts" certainly shouldn't mean you are ginning out liberal thinkers only. There are some ultra conservative universities and all offer "liberal arts degrees" but are definitely not considered "liberal" by any means.

Regardless, there is no doubt the country is spending more money on the free programs made available by federal mandate to the millions of illegal aliens in the country than on the war in the middle East. The war in the middle East has not yet surpassed the expense of the Viet Nam war and the cost of that war was in '60-'70's dollars. Adjusted to todays dollars we're not even close to the cost of the war in Viet Nam. As for illegal aliens they make up a huge percentage of the jail and prison population and at least 25% of them use at least ONE government welfare program. Sure they work cheap and spend money but it's your money they are spending. Where does the money go that the few pay into social security? You'll never know nor will I. Back into the welfare system most likely.

Whatever the was in Iraq and Afghanistan costs, stay til it's finished. Let the illegals starve or go home.

 

[Frankie]

Alice I'm assuming you're either a professor or a secretary to some guy getting paid a million a year to research why cows fart and why it smells worse on days when the humidity is more than 50% and wind out of the north. Either way you should know that "students" learn what they are taught and many professors (especially Harvard, Yale, Columbia and many others) are top heavy with those liberal professors spewing forth their liberal idiotic ideas and thousands of ignorant minds unwittingly absorb it. Hitler was a master of this...others as well. Sort of like cooking a frog with slow constant heat....He never knows he's being cooked until it's too late to jump out of the water.....Perhaps Tarleton is one exception (I would certainly hope so). The phrase "liberal arts" certainly shouldn't mean you are ginning out liberal thinkers only. There are some ultra conservative universities and all offer "liberal arts degrees" but are definitely not considered "liberal" by any means.

Regardless, there is no doubt the country is spending more money on the free programs made available by federal mandate to the millions of illegal aliens in the country than on the war in the middle East. The war in the middle East has not yet surpassed the expense of the Viet Nam war and the cost of that war was in '60-'70's dollars. Adjusted to todays dollars we're not even close to the cost of the war in Viet Nam. As for illegal aliens they make up a huge percentage of the jail and prison population and at least 25% of them use at least ONE government welfare program. Sure they work cheap and spend money but it's your money they are spending. Where does the money go that the few pay into social security? You'll never know nor will I. Back into the welfare system most likely.

Whatever the was in Iraq and Afghanistan costs, stay til it's finished. Let the illegals starve or go home.

Actually there's a great deal of doubt that we're "spending more money on the free programs made available by federal mandate to the millions of illegal aliens in the country than on the war in the middle East." You didn't have a clue what we're spending on simply operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. That $156 Billion a year doesn't include medical care now and long into the future for wounded veterans. Nor the cost to rearm and rebuild our military. I don't think you can back up your claims with figures about spending on illegals from any reputable source because most states simply don't track that or make make a distinction between legal and illegal immigrants. But if you want to continue to have me pop your balloons, go ahead.

And, BTW, the cost of the Iraqi war has far exceeded the cost of Vietnam. This is an article from 2006.

Once the war spending bill is passed, military and diplomatic costs will have reached $101.8 billion this fiscal year, up from $87.3 billion in 2005, $77.3 billion in 2004 and $51 billion in 2003, the year of the invasion, congressional analysts said. Even if a gradual troop withdrawal begins this year, war costs in Iraq and Afghanistan are likely to rise by an additional $371 billion during the phaseout, the report said, citing a Congressional Budget Office study. When factoring in costs of the war in Afghanistan, the $811 billion total for both wars would have far exceeded the nflation-adjusted $549 billion cost of the Vietnam War.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01_pf.html

 

[TexasBred]

Congrats..on 5000 posts. :clap: But you've not "popped my bubble". You wanna figure in cost of treating veterans etc? Try 2.5 million soldiers in Vietnam....58,000 dead or MIA..what are those worth? Hundreds of thousand wounded and treated...Rebuilding the military? You're wrong Frankie. Illegals cost much more. And least the war effort is bringing good results. With over 10 million illegals around even a buck a day for each would be 3.5 billion a year...doesn't take long for it to add up quickly...maybe they'll move on to Oklahoma if we're lucky. :lol2: In the meantime go study immigration and brush up on your spanish. :nod:

 

[MikeC]

Illegal Immigrants cost us approx. $338 BILLION per year:

_________________________________________________________________________________
Monday, March 03, 2008
Illegal Immigrants Cost the U.S. More Than the Iraq War
The URL's are included for verification of the following facts:

1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year.http://tinyurl.com/zob77

2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English!http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.0.html

5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ ... dt.01.html

6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ ... dt.01.html

7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ ... dt.01.html

8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare and Social Services by the American taxpayers.http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html

9. $200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens.http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ ... dt.01.html

10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two-and-a-half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US.http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ ... dt.01.html

11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin and marijuana, crossed into the U. S from the Southern border. Homeland Security Report. http://tinyurl.com/t9sht

12. The National Policy Institute, 'estimated that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period.'http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/pdf/deportation.pdf

13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin. http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm

14. 'The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States'.http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml

Total cost is a whooping... $338.3 BILLION A YEAR!!!

Snopes is provided for doubters:http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/bankofamerica.asp

 

[Frankie]

Illegal Immigrants cost us approx. $338 BILLION per year:

_________________________________________________________________________________
Monday, March 03, 2008
Illegal Immigrants Cost the U.S. More Than the Iraq War
The URL's are included for verification of the following facts:

1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year.http://tinyurl.com/zob77

I'll bold my comments: This link refers to IMMIGRANTS, not necessarily ILLEGALs. So we can deduct $22 billion? That leaves us $316 billion.

2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

Actually, if you take time to read the article it says

Our findings show that many of the preconceived notions about the fiscal impact of illegal households turn out to be inaccurate. In terms of welfare use, receipt of cash assistance programs tends to be very low, while Medicaid use, though significant, is still less than for other households. Only use of food assistance programs is significantly higher than that of the rest of the population. Also, contrary to the perceptions that illegal aliens don't pay payroll taxes, we estimate that more than half of illegals work "on the books." On average, illegal households pay more than $4,200 a year in all forms of federal taxes. Unfortunately, they impose costs of $6,950 per household.

and

illegal households already impose only about 46 percent as much in costs on the federal government as other households. Thus, the amount of money that can be saved by curtailing their use of public services even further is probably quite limited.

But I'm going to give you this one. So we're still at $316 billion.

3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

From your link:

In terms of welfare use, receipt of cash assistance programs tends to be very low, while Medicaid use, though significant, is still less than for other households.

So that's another $2.5 billion, leaving us with $313.5

4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English!http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.0.html

Link doesn't work. Subtract another $12 Billion. We're at $301.5.

5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ ... dt.01.html

First Lou Dobbs is an enertainer. He makes his living bashing immigrants. Second, I didn't find this little "fact" in the transcript when I scanned through it. So now we're at $$284.5 billion.

6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ ... dt.01.html

More Lou Dobs. Now we're at $283.5.

7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ ... dt.01.html

Link doesn't work. Since you don't put a $$ figure on this one, I'm going to take $100Billion. How's that? Now we're at $183.5 Billion.

8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare and Social Services by the American taxpayers.http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html

Link doesn't work. Are you beginning to get the idea? Now we're down to $93.5 Billion.

9. $200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens.http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ ... dt.01.html

Another Lou Dobbs. And again, I couldn't find a reference for this figure. So now we're down to a negative figure!

10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two-and-a-half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US.http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ ... dt.01.html

Lou Dobbs again. He's still making a good living bashing immigrants. You don't put a price on this....again.

11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin and marijuana, crossed into the U. S from the Southern border. Homeland Security Report. http://tinyurl.com/t9sht

I think you should talk to the people who were in charge of Congress and the White House in 1995 about this problem. We have laws in place; they simply have refused to enforce them.

12. The National Policy Institute, 'estimated that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period.'http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/pdf/deportation.pdf

Since the government hasn't chosen to mass deport, this figure is irrelavant to your original claim that illegals cost us $338 billion a year.

13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin. http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm

Which means what? They paid taxes on much of it, payroll and social security.

14. 'The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States'.http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml

Again your link doesn't work. What a shock!

Total cost is a whooping... $338.3 BILLION A YEAR!!!

Nowhere near that. As best I can tell, we're in the positive figures. You're pretty sad, Mike. And this last one is even worse:


Snopes is provided for doubters: http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigrat ... merica.asp

Everyone should go to this link and see how it proves everything Mike has claimed.

 

[MikeC]

Well if you don't like that one here's another to study:

http://immigrationcounters.com/

 

[TexasBred]

Frankie, I had no idea you were the yellow dog liberal democrat guy. Anti war..pro illegal alien, hoping for Utopia to be provided by the U.S. Govt....what a dog.