Angus

[VanC]

I had expected the "Why don;t you come and see me sometime line" line to be stuck in here by now.


dun

"My left knee is Christmas and my right knee is New Years. Why don't you come up and see me between the holidays sometime?" Mae West

Not sure if that's the exact quote, but something like that. Pretty suggestive for those days. Pretty mild now.

 

[topsquar]

Because every breed of cattle wants to go black, you now have this CAB/breed identification problem. ;-)

 

[MikeC]

I'd argue that pounds are always premium. At almost $15 difference, a Select animal will have to really outweigh a Choice animal to make up the difference.

Sound familiar? "We feel that if the commercial cattleman doesn't get the growth, the carcass premium won't make up for the loss that he would take from lightweight calves."
I'm confused again Frankie. Which is it? :lol: :lol:

 

[AngusSenorita]

The reason Angus is so popular is because they really pulled themselves together and worked to improve the breed.Then when you include great marketing people will think they are the best breed around. They are good at what they are bred for, IMF and easy fleshing. They are not all under muscled, that depends on the quality of the animal

look at OCC Ancor

http://www.ohldecattle.com/assets/sire/anchor771a.html

or R A F Prime Rib

http://www.onlinebullstud.com/Angus/R%2 ... 20025.html

 

[CowpokeJ]

Are you sure even with a homozygous bull you are going to get black? If there is an animal, I'm sure it's expensive. Now why would you go through that much trouble to go buy a homozygous bull and breed him to f1's and call them lbw angus sired? Am I going to have to go out to the pasture and get a gene test to prove to you non-believers that it was in fact a Angus bull? I was trying to make a point, not argue about color. Not every single Angus bull is going to be lbw.


http://www.simmental.com.au/tech_newsit ... itance.pdf

The site you posted even points out that black is dominant. There are homozygous black bulls in about every breed except Hereford, Red Poll and Red Angus, there are even homozygous black Charolais. Without the oddball dilutors, it only takes one black gene to make an animal black (heterozygous) and if bred to a red cow half of the calves in theory will be red the other half black.

dun

Yeah, I'm familiar with the black charolais. Bred to a white charolais you get a grey.

 

[CowpokeJ]

"I'd say somebody lied to your friend. Dont blame the breed, blame the liar"

"Sounds like the problem was the seller ,not the bull"


The bull was still an Angus though. Thus proving Angus is not the fix all for lbw calves, it happens with every breed.

Well as far as we know it was just a black bull. If the breeder lied about everything else, what makes you think he was telling the truth about that. Not only that, even as much as people on here complain about it, people, even in the industry, continue to think, or call all black bulls and cows angus.

I even saw an advertisment in the classifieds for Angus. Then in the remarks it said "some with white faces"

I agree, no breed is a fix all, but no breed is also the root of all your problems.

Iyo, it was a black bull. Now when I tell you the calves that did make it were really nice and bloomy, how many are going to jump up and claim Angus?

 

[3MR]

"I'd say somebody lied to your friend. Dont blame the breed, blame the liar"

"Sounds like the problem was the seller ,not the bull"


The bull was still an Angus though. Thus proving Angus is not the fix all for lbw calves, it happens with every breed.

Well as far as we know it was just a black bull. If the breeder lied about everything else, what makes you think he was telling the truth about that. Not only that, even as much as people on here complain about it, people, even in the industry, continue to think, or call all black bulls and cows angus.

I even saw an advertisment in the classifieds for Angus. Then in the remarks it said "some with white faces"

I agree, no breed is a fix all, but no breed is also the root of all your problems.

Iyo, it was a black bull. Now when I tell you the calves that did make it were really nice and bloomy, how many are going to jump up and claim Angus?

Im not going to jump on anything. Angus isnt the only breed that produces nice calves. I think Lim bulls produce really nice calves.

Maybe it was an Angus bull Maybe it wasnt. My whole point was that the breeder lied about everything else so why would you trust him that it was an Angus bull.

The only thing I can think of is that the breeder didnt say a LBW Angus bull, but merely said Angus, and your friend wrongly assumed that meant LBW.

PS: Please let your friend know I got some real steels up for sale. He can have his choice of a bridge in scenic Brooklyn or some seaside property in Arizona. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Just joking, Im sorry he got a rough deal. It doesnt do any of us any good when something like that happens.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

"Heavily muscled breeds tend to have calving problems. The rate of gain on a dead calf is very low"

Yes maam, you are right. My friend had 8 pulls, 2 cows dead and all 8 calves. But, they were bred to a "lbw angus bull." That's how they were sold as. F1's bred to lbw angus bulls. I'm running Charolais, no pulls. Tend being the key word.

that bull could have very well been a low birth weight bull but when you dabble with EPDs out side a given breed you might as well shove em up a hogs behind. especialy on F1S. they tend too rearange all your planning and thinking

 

[DOC HARRIS]

I realize just about everybody, if not everybody, on this thread was replying in a humerous manner.

N-o-o-o-o-o-t Egg-Zactly!!!

DOC HARRIS

 

[purecountry]

"Heavily muscled breeds tend to have calving problems. The rate of gain on a dead calf is very low"

Yes maam, you are right. My friend had 8 pulls, 2 cows dead and all 8 calves. But, they were bred to a "lbw angus bull." That's how they were sold as. F1's bred to lbw angus bulls. I'm running Charolais, no pulls. Tend being the key word.

that bull could have very well been a low birth weight bull but when you dabble with EPDs out side a given breed you might as well shove em up a hogs behind. especialy on F1S. they tend too rearange all your planning and thinking

I know all about the F1's rearranging your plans. Out of 14 first-calvers, we had 4 calves weigh 105lbs or more, and the other ones were ALL under 80lbs. All out of the same bull, and all the heifers were 1/2-3/4 sisters. But, the heifers were all 3-4way crosses, which gets more unpredictable than an F1. Kinda like a box o'chocolates.....

 

[DOC HARRIS]

I know all about the F1's rearranging your plans. Out of 14 first-calvers, we had 4 calves weigh 105lbs or more, and the other ones were ALL under 80lbs. All out of the same bull, and all the heifers were 1/2-3/4 sisters. But, the heifers were all 3-4way crosses, which gets more unpredictable than an F1. Kinda like a box o'chocolates.....

_________________

. . . . . ..and, . . .like a box of chocolates . . all were probably black! . . . .and four were in a consistent group (over 100 lbs.) and 10 were in another consistent group (under 80 lbs.). . . . which is a reasonable base upon which to expect future consistent heterosis and predictability two or three generations down-line. For successful Heterosis to be expected, CONSISTENCY is mandatory. But you can always expect a certain percentage of "not-so-goods", because NOTHING is perfect.

DOC HARRIS

 

[DOC HARRIS]

I know all about the F1's rearranging your plans. Out of 14 first-calvers, we had 4 calves weigh 105lbs or more, and the other ones were ALL under 80lbs. All out of the same bull, and all the heifers were 1/2-3/4 sisters. But, the heifers were all 3-4way crosses, which gets more unpredictable than an F1. Kinda like a box o'chocolates.....

_________________

. . . . . ..and, . . .like a box of chocolates . . all were probably black! . . . .and four were in a consistent group (over 100 lbs.) and 10 were in another consistent group (under 80 lbs.). . . . which is a reasonable base upon which to expect future consistent heterosis and predictability two or three generations down-line. For successful Heterosis to be expected, CONSISTENCY is mandatory. But you can always expect a certain percentage of "not-so-goods", because NOTHING is perfect.

DOC HARRIS

 

[CowpokeJ]

"Heavily muscled breeds tend to have calving problems. The rate of gain on a dead calf is very low"

Yes maam, you are right. My friend had 8 pulls, 2 cows dead and all 8 calves. But, they were bred to a "lbw angus bull." That's how they were sold as. F1's bred to lbw angus bulls. I'm running Charolais, no pulls. Tend being the key word.

that bull could have very well been a low birth weight bull but when you dabble with EPDs out side a given breed you might as well shove em up a hogs behind. especialy on F1S. they tend too rearange all your planning and thinking

I like your thinking, I too get wrapped up in the bull side of things. I guess when you breed commercial you don't think about the maternal side as much.

 

[dun]

I too get wrapped up in the bull side of things. I guess when you breed commercial you don't think about the maternal side as much.

If you want to stay in business and not have problems you think as much as the cow side as you do the bull.

dun

 

[Workinonit Farm]

(post moved)

 

[cattleman537]

My angus cattle are large ......I think the angus breeders have pretty much bred the smallness out of the breed or at least have tried to. My cows are at an average of 1700 lbs

 

[DOC HARRIS]

My angus cattle are large ......I think the angus breeders have pretty much bred the smallness out of the breed or at least have tried to. My cows are at an average of 1700 lbs

- cattleman537 - Welcome to the Forum! You are in a position of learning some very valuable pointers from the good breeders on this Forum.

Your Angus cows average 1700 lbs? :roll: Opinion: you are feeding a cow that is 500 pounds TOO large - give or take 50+/- pounds! Regardless of what bull you use as a sire, you are unnecessarily maintaining and encouraging excessive weight and size in your brood cows. A 5 - 6 Frame score breeding cow herd weighing 1100 - 1350 lbs will bring your $Profit figure up, and your Mineral and Feed bill down. Naturally, in the span of a year, they will fluctuate several pounds - but a cow weighing 1200 - 1300 dry prior to breeding will cause you less problems and should wean a 600 pound calf - and earn you a bottom-line-profit of about $75.00, more or less, per mamma cow. A 1700 pound brood cow eats like a horse!

Just something to think about.

DOC HARRIS

 

[dun]

Your Angus cows average 1700 lbs? :roll: Opinion: you are feeding a cow that is 500 pounds TOO large - give or take 50+/- pounds! Regardless of what bull you use as a sire, you are unnecessarily maintaining and encouraging excessive weight and size in your brood cows. A 5 - 6 Frame score breeding cow herd weighing 1100 - 1350 lbs will bring your $Profit figure up, and your Mineral and Feed bill down. Naturally, in the span of a year, they will fluctuate several pounds - but a cow weighing 1200 - 1300 dry prior to breeding will cause you less problems and should wean a 600 pound calf - and earn you a bottom-line-profit of about $75.00, more or less, per mamma cow. A 1700 pound brood cow eats like a horse!

Just something to think about.

DOC HARRIS

One of the fallacies of looking at weight and frame score as being directly linked. Easy fleshing and long deep bodied cattle on just decent forage can weigh significantly more for any given FS then what the tables show. The majority of our cows fall between FS 5 and 6 and range in weight from 1450 to 1702. One FS 4.5 is 1427 after feeding a calf for a month. This is without anything other then mineral, grass and water. There is no practical way to keep these girls down in weight.

dun

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

A 5 - 6 Frame score breeding cow herd weighing 1100 - 1350 lbs will bring your $Profit figure up, and your Mineral and Feed bill down.

Hey Doc, a question. Wouldn't a frame size 6 cow weighing in at 1350 lbs be a little on the slim side? Perhaps its because of my cold climate in the winter, but I like to see my FS 4 animals in that 1300 lb range. As Dun said, those long bodied, deep animals keep easy and raise hellish good calves year after year.

On the Angus front, to answer the original question, Angus gained popularity not necessarily because of their muscling (although there are certainly some well muscled Angus bulls out there) but rather because of their easy keeping, feed efficiency (this is where the dollars are at, not just simple weight gain), and maternal traits (milk, mothering, birthing).

Unfortunately, I think the modern Angus has lost some of what made them so desirable. Frame sizes have crept up, birthweights have crept up, calving ease has went down, and maternal instinct has been bred out of the animals. I think there are some better breeds out there now, and Angus will need to work hard to remain on top.

Rod

 

[dun]

FS and weight

http://www.ext.nodak.edu/extpubs/ansci/beef/as1091w.htm