Angus. I don't get this...........

[VanC]

For Hereford Certified Beef... do they have to be 100% Hereford? Just curious.
Valerie

No. Their phenotypic requirements are similar to CAB, but instead of the 51% black hide they have to have a 51% white face. They also have the Hereford Verified program which I think is similar to AngusSource. Don't know how the carcass requirements stack up but I imagine it says on the CHB website. I'm too tired to look it up right now. ;-)

Oh yeah, almost forgot. The last time I looked, they only allowed what they call english baldies. Hereford crossed with Angus, Red Angus, Shorthorn or South Devon. No continentals. Don't know if that's still true, and how anyone could tell that 100% of the time just by looking is beyond me.

 

[frankly]

CAB aint stupid, but it sure is ugly!

 

[vclavin]

For Hereford Certified Beef... do they have to be 100% Hereford? Just curious.
Valerie

No. Their phenotypic requirements are similar to CAB, but instead of the 51% black hide they have to have a 51% white face. They also have the Hereford Verified program which I think is similar to AngusSource. Don't know how the carcass requirements stack up but I imagine it says on the CHB website. I'm too tired to look it up right now. ;-)

Oh yeah, almost forgot. The last time I looked, they only allowed what they call english baldies. Hereford crossed with Angus, Red Angus, Shorthorn or South Devon. No continentals. Don't know if that's still true, and how anyone could tell that 100% of the time just by looking is beyond me.

VanC,
Thanks for the info, I was wondering if CAB were the only ones that didn't actually "spell out" what breeds were allowed to be included in their speciality beef. Looks like CHB is guilty as well?
Valerie

 

[VanC]

VanC,
Thanks for the info, I was wondering if CAB were the only ones that didn't actually "spell out" what breeds were allowed to be included in their speciality beef. Looks like CHB is guilty as well?
Valerie

Yes, they're guilty as well, but not as guilty as Angus. An animal with a black hide could have very little Angus influence. On the other hand, an animal with a white face likely has at least 1/4 Hereford in it. The white face doesn't stick around as long as a black hide can. Sure, the white face could come from the original type Fleckvieh Simmental but 1: I doubt if there are too many of them being run through US packing plants anymore and 2: the Hereford branded beef programs specifically rule out obvious continental influence. That said, since many of the obvious differences between breeds have been obscured in the past 30 years or so, there's little doubt that some animals with continental breeding make it through into the Hereford programs. How often is anybody's guess.

Here's a site I found listing all the USDA branded beef programs and the live animal and carcass requirements:

http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/ams.fet ... acct=lsstd

The only ones that are breed specific are Angus, Hereford, Wagyu, Akaushi, and Texas Longhorn, therefore they're the only ones that list any live animal requirements. Of those five, it appears, at least to me, that Angus is the least breed specific of the five. But remember, as Robert and I have pointed out, when CAB started out a black-hided beef animal meant Angus. Not that way anymore, but that has nothing to do with anything that the Angus people have done.

 

[vclavin]

VanC,
Thanks for the info, I was wondering if CAB were the only ones that didn't actually "spell out" what breeds were allowed to be included in their speciality beef. Looks like CHB is guilty as well?
Valerie

Yes, they're guilty as well, but not as guilty as Angus. An animal with a black hide could have very little Angus influence. On the other hand, an animal with a white face likely has at least 1/4 Hereford in it. The white face doesn't stick around as long as a black hide can. Sure, the white face could come from the original type Fleckvieh Simmental but 1: I doubt if there are too many of them being run through US packing plants anymore and 2: the Hereford branded beef programs specifically rule out obvious continental influence. That said, since many of the obvious differences between breeds have been obscured in the past 30 years or so, there's little doubt that some animals with continental breeding make it through into the Hereford programs. How often is anybody's guess.

Here's a site I found listing all the USDA branded beef programs and the live animal and carcass requirements:

http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/ams.fet ... acct=lsstd

The only ones that are breed specific are Angus, Hereford, Wagyu, Akaushi, and Texas Longhorn, therefore they're the only ones that list any live animal requirements. Of those five, it appears, at least to me, that Angus is the least breed specific of the five. But remember, as Robert and I have pointed out, when CAB started out a black-hided beef animal meant Angus. Not that way anymore, but that has nothing to do with anything that the Angus people have done.

Kinda Guilty? hehehe Now how many consumers know the difference between Hereford and Angus and/or understand the marketing of each brand of beef... or do they even care? as long as the price they pay for that beef is worth the taste experience?
Valerie

 

[Kingfisher]

Oh puke here we go again Angus this and that. Robert I bet if you fell and busted your head all that would come is little angus cows toting a CAB sign.

Someone needs to make this board some Smilies :cboy: that are relevant to our discussions. I think what you propose here would be a
good start.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Oh puke here we go again Angus this and that. Robert I bet if you fell and busted your head all that would come is little angus cows toting a CAB sign.

Someone needs to make this board some Smilies :cboy: that are relevant to our discussions. I think what you propose here would be a
good start.

what kind little angus totin' signs :cowboy:

 

[Smokey Bull]

MARKETING, MARKETING, and MARKETING No Organization has done it better than the Angus folks over the last 20 yrs +.

If you read what counts as CAB it is pretty loose. I guess you could spray black paint on a Holstein and get premiums at the "barn:?

 

[3waycross]

MARKETING, MARKETING, and MARKETING No Organization has done it better than the Angus folks over the last 20 yrs +.

If you read what counts as CAB it is pretty loose. I guess you could spray black paint on a Holstein and get premiums at the "barn:?

BLASPHEMER :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

 

[VanC]

MARKETING, MARKETING, and MARKETING No Organization has done it better than the Angus folks over the last 20 yrs +.

If you read what counts as CAB it is pretty loose. I guess you could spray black paint on a Holstein and get premiums at the "barn:?

No, because people that can't tell the difference between beef and dairy don't usually hang out at sale barns.

 

[Smokey Bull]

Both of those responses to me ended up making me laugh out loud...pretty good since most cowmen don't have a sense of humor (said with tongue in cheek).

Van C...you made me think of my late grandfather who used to tell me: "Son, a cattle auction is a place where honest men try to swindle each other."

 

[VanC]

Both of those responses to me ended up making me laugh out loud...pretty good since most cowmen don't have a sense of humor (said with tongue in cheek).

Van C...you made me think of my late grandfather who used to tell me: "Son, a cattle auction is a place where honest men try to swindle each other."

I'll have to remember that one. :lol2:

 

[Beef Man]

Chb has done wonders for the angus breed but have almost overdone the black is better image. Set in any ring in the fall of the year and see what black is doing,and remember some years ago when a lot of this wasjust starting and remember the quality of the black cattle and compare to what you see today. Its got so bad that just about every seedstock producers black bull calves remain as bulls. This is one big wreck waiting to happen. Asmost of youknow I am a hereford man and watched the same thing happen to our breed . The best tool any purebreeder has is a sharp knife and then to use it and make no excuses. As to the angus and cab, it amuses me to see signs in nearly every fastfood or hamburger joint advetiseing angus hamburger. If it is all from cab it would probably be at the best75%--25% or worse and ther in lies the problem withthe fatty foods image. It is extremely hard to make a lean hamburger by useing choice beef. The easy way to get into the breed assc. beef biz is breed genuine f1's hereford-angus,thereby enableing you to get into either cab or chb and you would have all those sweet little f-1 heifers to breed or sell. We have 2 large customers that will say we sell our heifers for the same money as our steers every year and have for a long time. Its just so easy!

 

[agmantoo]

dun
Don"t you think that CAB "partnered" with the other breeds when they inserted the black ruling so that more "black" animals comprise the percentage of beef marketed and thus generates more money for CAB? Most Angus producers that I chat with want the bull side of the "black" to have to come from a registered Angus bull and to be traceable. Where does all the money go that CAB receives? I have never been clear on that part of the market.

 

[dun]

dun
Don"t you think that CAB "partnered" with the other breeds when they inserted the black ruling so that more "black" animals comprise the percentage of beef marketed and thus generates more money for CAB? Most Angus producers that I chat with want the bull side of the "black" to have to come from a registered Angus bull and to be traceable. Where does all the money go that CAB receives? I have never been clear on that part of the market.

Nope, all it was/is is a method to create more demand for and sell more black angus bulls.
You'll notice that most of the breeds have made a space for blk angus genetics in their registrys but the AAA hasn;t made space for even Red Angus in theirs

 

[agmantoo]

[/quote]
Nope, all it was/is is a method to create more demand for and sell more black angus bulls.
You'll notice that most of the breeds have made a space for blk angus genetics in their registrys but the AAA hasn;t made space for even Red Angus in theirs[/quote]

I fully agree with you that was initial intent of the CAB program. However CAB is an LLC business and someone is making a ton of money. Here is a copy and paste from their site.

WOOSTER, Ohio – Nov. 19, 2010 – Start-up companies often report double-digit sales growth,
but 32-year-old iconic brands without new-product launches or acquisitions? Not so much. Yet
Certified Angus Beef LLC recently closed the books on fiscal year 2010 with 17.2% growth


CAB LLC makes more money when more meat meets the CAB guidelines and the more cattle that are black starts the qualifying procedure. The more meat that is marketed under the CAB label, the the more income to CAB LLC. To me it is now a conflict of interest between CAB LLC and the American Angus Association as the Angus breed reputation is potentially compromised while reducing the demand for the breed.

 

[Smokey Bull]

While I have a BeefMaster bull I am not beating the drum that everyone should do BM. He just happens to work for what I am doing and puts out straight backed, heavy muscled calves. "You" gotta work with the breed that suits your purpose and needs. CAB has just done a better job of marketing to the buying public and has pretty much buried the competition, for now. When you count the CAB cert. labeling on the store's private label, coupled with name brand CAB labels, there is very little self space left for competing breeds to gain a foot hold. Sheesh(!)...

I still remember the giant Hereford bull outside every Sirloin Stockade restaurant...When I was a "whipper-snap", that is.

Side Note (which is really going to get the Angus crowd wee-wee'd up, but not really meant to):

There are several breeds (and even some "Heinz 57" crosses) that consistently test equal to or higher than Angus in tenderness...(Heck, there's even a group in Waco raising Coreinte cattle [read roping steers] for beef that are getting some great tenderness scores!)

Again, public perception and masterful marketing win...

AND I REITERATE, there is nothing wrong with CAB meat. After all, It is good 'ol american produced beef.

 

[Jake]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with CAB meat. They do the best job of promoting and marketing the beef product.

Quite honestly the only people that care whether or not it's Black, red, polka dotted or spotted are the cattle producers that whine because their association wasn't smart enough to capture the market first. The consumer ONLY cares about the finished product and CAB has provided a consistent, quality product. The consumers are happy with the product and that is quite simply all they care about.

The angus bashing on this site is absolutely ridiculous! If you have such a problem with a successful program put your money where your mouths are. Step up to the plate, start a branded beef program or partner with an existing one and COMPETE.

 

[TexasBred]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with CAB meat. They do the best job of promoting and marketing the beef product.

Quite honestly the only people that care whether or not it's Black, red, polka dotted or spotted are the cattle producers that whine because their association wasn't smart enough to capture the market first. The consumer ONLY cares about the finished product and CAB has provided a consistent, quality product. The consumers are happy with the product and that is quite simply all they care about.

The angus bashing on this site is absolutely ridiculous! If you have such a problem with a successful program put your money where your mouths are. Step up to the plate, start a branded beef program or partner with an existing one and COMPETE.

The marketing has worked. Every restaurant in the country promotes "Angus Beef" on their menus and most of them dont have a clue what kind of animal it came from. And folks pay extra for it too.

 

[Smokey Bull]

Well said - Jake.

Hereford got caught napping and Beef Master??? How do you not get marketing and shelf space out of a name like that? With Nolan Ryan as your spokesman to boot? Kudos to CAB for the retail market. Love 'em or hate 'em ya gotta respect what they have accomplished.