An interesting or odd development in the West investigation

[greybeard]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/12/us/pa ... .html?_r=0

Dunno what to make of all that other than the guy seems to be suffering from delusions of being something more than he is/was.

Did he provide the event that changed it from just a fire to a detonation?
Maybe.
Maybe not.

 

[mwj]

Have found that there are a lot of fireman that like to set fires!!! They usually do not set them to big but they get the chance to respond and be a hero in there own eyes. It will be interesting to see if there is a connection.

 

[Jogeephus]

We've had a few convicted of doing the same. Pretty sick.

 

[Ouachita]

Just had the final closure with 2 local young men. RVFD fire fighters who set several fires in a 2 month period. Mostly to hay barns and unoccupied houses. Thousands of rolls of hay that people had managed to get from a first and only cutting during last years drought. They were high on the adrenaline rush, and like mwj said, their desire to be a hero was more important than their desire to protect and serve the rural community that entrusted them. Sick.
When they were finally caught (each were sons of fathers who were consider pillars of the community; one father was a city police officer, one owned the local ambulance service), they had to be placed in jail in another county because they would have experience some vigilante justice.

 

[Jogeephus]

Here they get a "call back" bonus for each fire they respond to and this bonus was the motivation. Just needed a little beer money I guess.

 

[Ouachita]

Here they get a "call back" bonus for each fire they respond to and this bonus was the motivation. Just needed a little beer money I guess.

All of our RVFD are 100% volunteer. The even have to buy their own equipment. The only benefit they get are proceeds from the chili suppers and cake walks and member dues (when members pay). The fire fighters don't recieve this money directly, but is pooled and a decision made as to how it will be spent. No pay, and definately no bonus. Arkansas just this year finally allowed RVFD to deduct mileage and equipment purchases for tax purposes.

 

[I luv herfrds]

Yeah I know about those guys/gals. Makes a person sick!
Most of our "torches" have been private citizens but there have been some forest service guys doing that crap.

Our guys out here are 100% volunteer. No pay. What monies we get are donations, grants and fund raisers. The guys just turned it over to me to get things done but I still call them about expenses and make sure bills are paid. If they want to go to training we cover their rooms and fuel.

 

[TexasBred]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/12/us/paramedic-bryce-reed-denies-role-in-west-texas-blast.html?_r=0

Dunno what to make of all that other than the guy seems to be suffering from delusions of being something more than he is/was.

Did he provide the event that changed it from just a fire to a detonation?
Maybe.
Maybe not.

Hard to know but sounds like he was equipped to try and do some hard to somebody or something. I know of a volunteer who set a number of fires, one being his on dad's hay barn. All just so he could go and fight the fires. Hope everyone realizes these are not the norm and volunteer fireman are an absolute necessity in small towns and rural areas and continue to give them support.

 

[Jogeephus]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/12/us/paramedic-bryce-reed-denies-role-in-west-texas-blast.html?_r=0

Dunno what to make of all that other than the guy seems to be suffering from delusions of being something more than he is/was.

Did he provide the event that changed it from just a fire to a detonation?
Maybe.
Maybe not.

Hard to know but sounds like he was equipped to try and do some hard to somebody or something. I know of a volunteer who set a number of fires, one being his on dad's hay barn. All just so he could go and fight the fires. Hope everyone realizes these are not the norm and volunteer fireman are an absolute necessity in small towns and rural areas and continue to give them support.

I agree but I do think they could raise the standards a bit. There are a few out there that are nuts and have no business in this position. I know you've seen them with their jacked up trucks with flames, lights and decals plastered all over them so we all know they are a FIREMAN!

 

[TexasBred]

I agree but I do think they could raise the standards a bit. There are a few out there that are nuts and have no business in this position. I know you've seen them with their jacked up trucks with flames, lights and decals plastered all over them so we all know they are a FIREMAN!

Oh yeah...that's the idiot that passes you on the wrong side and runs thru the stops signs and dam near kills everybody just to be the 1st on one the scene....with no equipment to do a dam thing. I sort of think this dude may be one of those as well...really wanted to be "somebody".

 

[greybeard]

BATF now says the original fire was arson, intentionally set.

The plot thickens....
BATF announces that the fire that resulted in this explosion was deliberately set--a criminal act.

The fire that led to a deadly explosion at a West, Texas, fertilizer plant three years ago was intentionally set, authorities said Wednesday.

The blast devastated the Texas town of West in April 2013 and killed 15 people -- including 12 first responders.
Texas blast leaves nearly 100-foot crater

Texas blast leaves nearly 100-foot crater 02:56
Investigators determined someone started the fire on purpose after conducting 400 interviews and lab work on evidence, said officials from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.
Authorities would not comment on whether they know of a suspect.

More at the link.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/11/us/texas- ... index.html

 

[LauraleesFarm]

My dads pasture was set on fire by a volunteer idiot fireman years ago. So yeah that is a real problem.

 

[Rafter S]

I remember listening to the news on the radio a few days after that happened, and a city official was being interviewed. He was asked by the reporter (who sounded like he needed to find someone to blame for the damage) "Why was this fertilizer plant allowed to be built so close to those schools, homes, and other businesses?" The official patiently explained that the plant had been there first.

 

[Caustic Burno]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/12/us/paramedic-bryce-reed-denies-role-in-west-texas-blast.html?_r=0

Dunno what to make of all that other than the guy seems to be suffering from delusions of being something more than he is/was.

Did he provide the event that changed it from just a fire to a detonation?
Maybe.
Maybe not.

It wasn't just a fire he started when the first responders showed up and applied water they started an unstoppable exothermic event.
He recreated the Texas City disaster of 1947.
There is not a VFD in the country capable of dealing with the events set in motion.

 

[TexasBred]

CB state boys said the water from the fire fighters did nothing. Heat from fire simply melted the top layer of the ammonia nitrate sealing it off setting the stage for the explosion as the gases built up underneath. Personally I know absolutely nothing about how that stuff works.

 

[Caustic Burno]

CB state boys said the water from the fire fighters did nothing. Heat from fire simply melted the top layer of the ammonia nitrate sealing it off setting the stage for the explosion as the gases built up underneath. Personally I know absolutely nothing about how that stuff works.

This is basically an unstoppable reaction and all you can do is evacuate and run. I held an Avanced Firefighter Cert while working had to for incident and on scene commander duties. Read about the TC explosions of the Grand Camp and High Flyer worst industrial accident in US history same scenario. When water is applied to NH3 nitrate an unstoppable exothermic reaction occurs this gets expounded exponentially by pressure of containment area creating the snowball effect that turns into an avalanche.
The minute the firefighters put water on the NH3 nitrate they were doomed.
This is the big issue I have with VFD's lack of training and equipment heII of a difference in an industrial/chemical fire and a house fire.
Had that incident occurred at work where we had some of the best firefighting equipment in the country, I would activated the level four alarm system evacuating the city and we would have ran.
The explosion was imminent.

 

[greybeard]

CB state boys said the water from the fire fighters did nothing. Heat from fire simply melted the top layer of the ammonia nitrate sealing it off setting the stage for the explosion as the gases built up underneath. Personally I know absolutely nothing about how that stuff works.

One of the reports I read said the water cooled that melted top layer off, much like the air does the outer layer of a melted glob of wax, tar or plastic, and sealed the mass off even more. Inside, the reaction continued.
(OT but....ever get melted plastic on your finger and try to wipe it off? dang, that just spreads the burn around)

 

[greybeard]

The explosion was imminent.

Inevitable.

 

[Caustic Burno]

CB state boys said the water from the fire fighters did nothing. Heat from fire simply melted the top layer of the ammonia nitrate sealing it off setting the stage for the explosion as the gases built up underneath. Personally I know absolutely nothing about how that stuff works.

One of the reports I read said the water cooled that melted top layer off, much like the air does the outer layer of a melted glob of wax, tar or plastic, and sealed the mass off even more. Inside, the reaction continued.
(OT but....ever get melted plastic on your finger and try to wipe it off? dang, that just spreads the burn around)

Problem with NH3 it produces its own oxygen to continue the process
It really is compounded by volume and containment of the chemical reaction.

 

[Rafter S]

The explosion was imminent.

Inevitable.

Probably both, inevitable and imminent.