Ai Bulls for my new cows

[Richnm]

I have 10 red angus heifers that will be 15 months in march, 5 Leachman Sagahutchee 3000c cows, and 1 Final Answer daughter all are registered angus. I plan on AI all of them in March/April. If I use a red Simmental on the heifers I can register them as Simmental, but worried about pulling a calf. The angus are all super long 8 year olds and 1,500 pounds average. I need suggestions on bulls. The final answer daughter will be 15 months in March. I would like to get a "show" Type bull for her that is still CE friendly. Thanks.

 

[Son of Butch]

Obviously new to registered cattle as a Simmental bull does not have to be Red to register calves as Simmental.

Breed the Final Answer daughter to 1SM0153 CCR Cowboy Cut from Genex.
CC x FA is a mating that works well.
CC x FA produced the bull TJ Cowboy Up 529B reg. 2591389 at Accelerated Genetics.

I would also breed the Sagahutchee daughters to Cowboy Cut.
Sagahutchee was well proven and his epds have over 90% accuracy
ce 0 bottom 10%
bw 4.2 bottom 5%
sc -.27 bottom 5%
doc -10 bottom 5%
And they are below breed average for 20 of 24 traits.

The top 3 traits I'd seek to improve when mating Sagahutchee daughters are:
1. Scrotal size /fertility
2. Calving Ease/bw
3. Docility

Cowboy Cut would improve all 3 traits.

As for the 10 registered Red Angus heifers, for their 1st calf breed them to a calving ease Angus bull.
You can register their calves as red angus.

When crossbreeding birth weights will be a couple pounds higher because of hybrid vigor.
Breeding a calving ease Simmental bull to angus heifers will give you larger calves than you want for the 1st calf.
For 2nd calf using a Simmental bull is fine, but not for the 1st calf.

 

[Richnm]

the red angus aren't registered.

 

[Son of Butch]

I have 10 red angus heifers that will be 15 months in march, 5 Leachman Sagahutchee 3000c cows, and 1 Final Answer daughter all are registered angus.

My mistake.... what was I thinking? LOL

 

[Son of Butch]

the red angus aren't registered.

Then you can't register the calves as angus.
But that doesn't mean they'll be better calving ease.
Breed them to a Simmental bull at your own risk.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Cowboy Cut is a good pick but he is homozygous black.
Red bull:
I would recommend GCF Mr Amigo. He is a cheap price at Cattle Visions.
How much do you think your heifers will weigh when you breed them?

 

[Richnm]

Heifers will weigh 900 ish . I guess my end goal is to register all the calves and was thinking registered red calves. Since I have red heifer calves now. Thanks

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

There are a lot of good red Simmental bulls available thru AI. What stud do you normally buy from or available for you? ABS & Genex are usually easy to get delivery to your farm. Select Sires also. I would be glad to look thru their offering if you let me know.

 

[Richnm]

We are new to ai. In the past we used resource, upgrade and hulk once in order to make us a breeding bull. The cows I have now were all AI'd by the previous owner.

 

[Son of Butch]

Mr Amigo ce 11.8 (Top 25% for Simmental) bw .2 (top 15%) a fine choice for breeding Same Breed heifers.

Amigo's birth weight adjustment 3.1 lbs
angus to simmental bw adjustment 2.9 lbs + .2 = bw +3.1 lbs (bottom 20%) fine for cows... not 1st calf heifers
Black Angus breed average bw 1.3 lbs + 2.9 = bw 4.2 lbs (bottom 5% for Black Angus)

Desired end goal for the 10 commercial heifers = red calves and to register all the calves as simmentals
options
A. Mr Amigo or similar bull and cross your fingers
B. Breed to Angus calving ease bull 1st year, sell all of the calves to pay bills and buy more semen and then use
Mr Amigo semen for the 2nd and 3rd calves to produce red calves to register as Simmental.

Your other stated goal was easy heifer calving, the safest way to ensure that is to use a same breed calving ease bull.
They're your heifers, do what you want... but I'd recommend plan B as best route to reach your goal.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I recommended Mr Amigo based on several years of experience using him on heifers - not on his EPD's.

I rarely sell a "live" bull to a Simmental breeder. They all go on small commercial cow herds, used for cows and heifers. Very, very few farms out here use 2 bulls. Not very many of my bulls have a +12 CE or better. Anything +9 and over, and had a BW under 100# and had good smooth shoulders has been used on "other breed" 1st calf heifers.
I have NEVER (48 years) have had a customer complain about a bull. Period. I only sell 2-5 per year, but that adds up to quite a few bulls, with 98% going to a commercial herd.
Mr Amigo sired bulls have been sold off my farm for several years now. Like I said, he is just one suggestion. Let me know who you would like to order from and I could look thru them for a recommendation.

 

[Son of Butch]

I recommended Mr Amigo based on several years of experience using him on heifers -

You've used him on your Angus heifers?

In breeder comments on his A.I. page he is recommended for use on Simmental heifers.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I recommended Mr Amigo based on several years of experience using him on heifers -

You've used him on your Angus heifers?

In breeder comments on his A.I. page he is recommended for use on Simmental heifers.

Yes, correct. I have used him on Simmental heifers. But, I have also sold his sons that were used on all breed heifers, with poorer EPD's than he has - but I know how he calves.
He says his heifers will weigh roughly 900#. Even if he is 100# off, they are plenty big enough, probably about the same size as my heifers - maybe bigger!

 

[FlyingLSimmentals]

CDI Rimrock 325Z

 

[Lucky_P]

WS All In W111.
https://cattlevisions.com/detail.php?Bu ... bulltype=1
Used him on SimAngus & Shorthorn-X heifers. Calves came easy, unassisted, grew like crazy, only got one heifer, but she's primo!

 

[Richnm]

Should I worry about weight or age in knowing when to breed ? And what would the minimums be ? Seems that Red Bull's have more power ?

 

[Son of Butch]

I recommended Mr Amigo based on several years of experience using him on heifers -

You've used him on your Angus heifers?

Yes, correct. I have used him on Simmental heifers.

LOL What is it today?
All 16 of his new angus are registered (except for the 10 red angus) and your Angus heifers are Simmental.

Did the software update change the site to the Used Car Salesmen Forum?


Twist the facts any way you want, but crossing breeds increases hybrid vigor which also increases birth weights.

 

[Lazy M]

https://bullsearch.absglobal.com/en-us/ ... ountry/222
Sure like the looks and epds for this bull..

 

[WinterSpringsFarm]

You guys who claim the hybrid vigor will cause such a higher birthweight that heifers will have difficulty calving I call BS. I also call BS in putting all your faith in those numbers printed in a catalog.

When I first started in the business I had 4 commercial angus cattle, I bred them to a calving ease simmental bull who was long fronted and smooth shouldered. Those heifers calved with calves in the 70-90lb range without issue!

Grow the heifers right, make a smart breeding decision not solely based off of numbers, but also phenotypically, and then proceed to grow,the heifers correctly and you won't have an issue.

 

[Son of Butch]

You guys who claim the hybrid vigor will cause such a higher birthweight that heifers will have difficulty calving I call BS.

When I first started in the business I had 4 commercial angus cattle, I bred them to a calving ease simmental bull
Those heifers calved with calves in the 70-90lb range without issue!

So 25% of your 4 angus heifers had 90 lb calves when bred to a Calving Ease Simmental bull and you find that acceptable.... even recommended?

A dairy farmer friend has been using a black Simmental bull on his Holstein heifers and was bragging what nice big
growthy calves he was getting. Much more growth than the Angus bull he had used 2 years ago.
How big?
100 lbs
You find that acceptable?
Sure, we're set up here to assist whenever needed and have been pulling 1/3 of them and haven't had any problems.
Then he showed me a nice black 105 lb bull calf they pulled from a heifer that morning... isn't he nice? Yep.

I stopped by at the end of the week and he had a long face. The heifer he had pulled the bull calf from had died.
He said, "I can't believe it. She was such a nice big heifer and it really wasn't all that hard of a pull."
(Not for him it wasn't) It takes a lot of growth to pay for 1 dead calf, let alone a dead heifer.

Everything works... until it doesn't.