Women changing...or not changing... their last name

[Dave]

Having met MM personally I would characterize her as a highly intelligent thoughtful young lady. I would seriously doubt that she asked the question to vandalize her opinion. Rather to ask the question in a forum that is dominated by older males to get a better understanding of the opposing opinion. There are a number of verses in Proverbs that tell that a wise man seeks the counsel of many. That is what she did. Where else can she get the opinions of this many older males who don't have a direct personal relationship?
My advise to her would be to remember the words of the Apostle Paul when he told husbands to love their wives and wives to respect their husbands (I am sure she has read the verse). This 2000 year old advise also came to the surface in a University of Washington study of successful long term marriages. Love and respect were the two common traits in 30-40 year marriages. So in this issue and all others be respectful of Mr. MM. Not meaning that she has to agree with him in all things. Just respect his opinions.

 

[bball]

We get married and I go from Dr MM my last name to Mrs his last name, that's a significant change. He was Mr his last name before and he'll still be Mr his last name after. Why should all the changes happen to me? lol. He asks why I don't want to be part of "us" - I do - I just don't want to give up the part that is "me" in the process of becoming "us." Does that make sense?

Anyway, I do appreciate y'all's input. Thanks.

I wish to add, you do NOT become Mrs. His last name, you become DR. His last name. That title should not change, no matter your last name. You worked very hard for that title, made great sacrifices to acquire it. It is yours. You keep that. Last name, that's a different story.

The whole part of "us" and losing "me" thing. This is precisely what marriage is. We trade many aspects of me to become part of a greater we (hopefully). Its supposed to be the beautiful thing about marriage. The companionship, security, stability, etc. Marriage plays a significant role in redefining our identities, especially to younger folks who just finished forming their identity in their 20s. Now, enter another huge change. Important decisions have to be made before one marries. Namely, what aspects of me am I willing to exchange or lose to be part of the 'we'. You get to make those decisions. You decide if the juice is worth the squeeze. Just as he does as well about himself.

Finally, I have no doubts you love your groom to be and he loves you. But what is love? Love is many things listed in the Bible, but the simplest, greatest example is Jesus on the cross. No flowery prose, but the dying example of love incarnate. Love is SACRIFICE. Sacrifice is putting another's needs or wants above our own, with no personal gain for ourselves. When we learn to do this, along with healthy communication, we will find so many of your conflicts melt away. Sacrifice is an extremely difficult discipline to practice and sacrificial people are easily taken advantage of by those less sacrificial in nature; hence the importance of being certain your spouse is equally yoked in his willingness to sacrifice. I will close with this, there is no sacrifice I wouldn't make for my bride, and I believe the same of her.
Truly, best wishes to you both on your journey through, love, life and time!

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Man! her original question,,sure has touched all the angles...

 

[Rafter S]

And that advice is this:

Dr. MM. Don't make your decision on solicited comments about marriage on a Cattle Forum. Most of us can barely do a good job in animal husbandry - Lord forbid that we give counsel to couples on the eve of their nuptials.

I do agree with you here. I think she's already made her mind up and was hoping to get someone here to validate what she has chose to do.

I've never met the young lady, but nothing I've seen here makes me believe that's true. She might have been leaning one way, but I believe she really wanted to hear other points of view. And she's been a member here long enough to not expect that advice to be sugar coated.

 

[1982vett]

My wife...second marriage for her...has two grown men (26 and 28) thought about not changing her last name to mine because she she felt the name bonded her with her kids and a name change was akin to abandoning their identity. Someone suggested she use it as her middle name and then use my last. No hyphen. I can say I wasn't to keen on the idea she use her exes name just to keep from having a different last than her kids. Most of her kids friend still call her by her exes name. Doesn't bother me a bit.

 

[TiftonBeefmaster]

Old time poster.....some of you hopefully remember me. I try to still swing by once in awhile. Question for the board about women changing last names, or not changing last names. :help:

Quick background, MM is getting married! :banana: MM, as many of you know, is Dr. MM and has been that way for several years. And for the last 10 years of higher education and work and play, MM has been MM current last name. Don't really want to change it. Mountains of paperwork, everyone knows me by the current last name, reputation with the current last name, etc. Compounding this is the fact that MM's first name starts with a Cla... and future Mr. MM's last name starts with a Kla... put together sounds like a train or tongue twister or something. Not a fan of the combination. It's fairly common among all my female Dr friends and acquaintances to be Dr maiden name at work, and Mrs married name socially...not that uncommon not to change or to just drop the middle name and add the new last name, eg. MM maiden name married name. Then I could go by whichever I want.

Enter the future Mr. MM's opinion. He feels it signifies not wanting to be part of "us", that everyone will look down on him for the rest of our lives because his wife doesn't think highly enough of him or respect him enough to take his last name, that refusing to do so is disrespectful, etc. I have never ever heard any of the above reasons mentioned, or anyone ever comment on a couple with different last names in a negative way....but then most of my friends are female veterinarians and I apparently need a male perspective.

Soooooo.... do you guys actually view married couples with different last names this way? I'm moving from a fairly progressive city of 50,000 to a small rural town of 3000 where the nearest large town is an hour away.. probably a similar demographic to Cattle Today folks. Thoughts, comments, etc?

Thanks all, appreciate it!

Do what you feel comfortable with and the hell with what anyone else thinks. It's your life. If you and your significant other are comfortable with the choice, then go with it. Had an old lady (82) refer to my gal as " your friend ". At my age, I could care less how they want to refer to the relationship. "Live in sin, partner, girlfriend, common law infidel..... . Whatever.

 

[Brute 23]

My wife...second marriage for her...has two grown men (26 and 28) thought about not changing her last name to mine because she she felt the name bonded her with her kids and a name change was akin to abandoning their identity. Someone suggested she use it as her middle name and then use my last. No hyphen. I can say I wasn't to keen on the idea she use her exes name just to keep from having a different last than her kids. Most of her kids friend still call her by her exes name. Doesn't bother me a bit.

That is what my grandmother did also when she remarried. She just added her new husbands name to the end.

 

[farmerjan]

I can understand the whole, why do I have to give up "me" to be a part of us when he doesn't have to change his name. I got married, took my husbands name. When we got divorced, after years of mental, verbal and some physical abuse, I took back my maiden name. My son was 6 and the school administration members were making a big deal of it with my son. He asked me about it and I explained that I was so & so before I married his father, and now that we weren't married anymore, I went back to using my old name. He told them all that in school, and when the teacher asked if that confused him, he said, no, she is still my mom and he is still my dad. They aren't married so she has her old name back.
That said, I see no reason why you should not keep your name. Add his for the social end of it. But you became a vet and that is a big part of who you are. Marrying should ADD to it and you should add to his life. I don't necessarily agree that it is where you need to compromise who you feel you are, but that you are adding another part to your life. I tend to be old school on many things....and if you want to take his name, fine, but I don't think it makes him less a man to take you for better or worse, including keeping your name.
If it was a previous husbands name, then I could see some reserve on his part, but if it's your maiden name, then no I don't think it should be that big a deal. Is he insecure about your name/title/etc?
In my parents generation, the woman did use her maiden name as her middle name and the married name at the end. Grandmother did the same. Their given middle name was not usually used in any legal correspondence.
Don't think I would change my name if I got married again. But who knows what I would do if the time came.
I think keeping your current name is right for you and your practice etc. Calling yourself by his name in social situations should be enough of a reassurance "who you belong to".

 

[boondocks]

For me this is part of the whole emasculation of males in our society. As kids we are taught to hold to door for females, protect them, provide for your family and with all that is giving your name to your wife. That gift is just as symbolic as the ring in my mind. To have my fiance refuse that gift would hurt, especially for the reasons you have listed.

The idea that his name is being forced on you is a false idea that these feminist put in peoples' head. It is given by the man, like a gift, that you can choose to accept or not accept.

Reading what you have typed shows you are definitely not "all in". You are trying to dip your toe in the marriage pool. Which is not that uncommon on certain things and I do believe it takes a little time to become "all in". Its just dicey... this could go just fine and work itself out... or it could snowball. My bet is, if you are the person I think you are, 5 years from now on when yall have kids you will look back and be like... what was I thinking.

I honestly hope yall can find some thing that work for both of yall. I would definitely take yalls time to find some thing. There has bound to be a middle ground. The DBA sounded like a good idea to me although I don't think its just strictly a business issue with you.

Yall might even go to a marriage counselor and talk it out with a professional. A lot of people balk at that but it really helps to talk out issues with those people. They tend to keep things from getting nasty also.

Good luck in what ever yall do. :tiphat:

I am very confused by this, Brute, as you're saying two opposite things, to wit: (1). It's your choice to accept the "gift" of his name or not. Feminists have caused you to feel it is being forced on you but it's not. (2). The fact that you are on the fence means you're "not all in". If you were truly committed to this man, you would have no qualms about changing your name to his.
You do see the contradiction, I hope?
For many women (and also many men), this practice is seen as a holdover from times when women were not even allowed to own property or to vote. Socially, formal-etiquette-wise they often even lost their first names, with Amanda Jones (after marrying Fred Whazzit), becoming Mrs. Fred Whazzit.
To me, changing my name had zero connection to the level of my commitment. (I got lucky and would take a bullet for my guy. Just celebrated our 25th). My sister and mother, on the other hand, changed their names. Neither marriage lasted. My dad and his brother have 8 marriages between them. Guess how many name changes? Yup, 8.
Those jumping to assumptions that MM is not ready to marry this lucky guy are over the top and being disrespectful, IMHO.

 

[milkmaid]

Hmmm.... well that got some opinions. lol.

I do appreciate y'all's input. Seriously. Bit more background... I do honestly want opinions on the topic; believe me, I don't come out of months/years of minimal posting to ask a personal question on a forum if I just want validation. LOL. Yup, it'd be nice if everyone thought that the name change question was a minor issue and took my perspective, but if I wanted that I'd go to my veterinary Facebook groups where that is the consensus. The Future Mr MM and I discussed the topic, not a 10/10 argument but he has 9/10 or 10/10 feelings about us not having the same last name. We concluded that maybe neither of us was entirely educated on the topic from the other person's perspective, so he said he'd ask around and I said I'd ask around. I figured the CT forum was the most likely source to have similar views to my new rural community.

I was originally thinking I'd show the future Mr MM the responses; after reading through some of them I'm not so sure now. lol. I do appreciate y'all not beating around the bush, regardless of whether I agree with you or not.

Also... commitment level...judge for yourselves. I packed up and moved last week. Moved 640 miles, gave up a job I loved, good friends in the area, in a nice location, with my nice roomy house/yard/fenced backyard for the dogs... for a tiny 110 year old house in town with a poor foundation (e.g. stuff doesn't consistently stay on flat surfaces), no yard, no fences, got a part time job at a vet clinic for a significant pay cut (but so far is going good), in a state I never would have moved to if it wasn't for the future Mr MM living here. Good guys are hard to find; I kinda believe a girl should make every effort to keep one when she finds him.

 

[bball]

Also... commitment level...judge for yourselves. I packed up and moved last week. Moved 640 miles, gave up a job I loved, good friends in the area, in a nice location, with my nice roomy house/yard/fenced backyard for the dogs... for a tiny 110 year old house in town with a poor foundation (e.g. stuff doesn't consistently stay on flat surfaces), no yard, no fences, got a part time job at a vet clinic for a significant pay cut (but so far is going good), in a state I never would have moved to if it wasn't for the future Mr MM living here. Good guys are hard to find; I kinda believe a girl should make every effort to keep one when she finds him.

Well, holding to my axiom that love is sacrifice, I would say you love this boy an awful lot!

 

[Craig Miller]

Ok Dr MM I offer a full apology for my assumption about you. As i said I feel the same as future MM and i stand by that. I will repeat what I said before to in that you'll want to work this out before marriage. He should be willing to give some too though so he will have to decide if he can live with your decision

 

[boondocks]

MM, I like the way you and your guy are listening to each other and actively seeking opinions which may differ from your own. I think that bodes well. Relationships are compromise. Not always 50/50; more often 100/0 then 0/100. You've already made a big sacrifice (in moving to his area). I don't believe in keeping score or taking turns, but if I were him, I would sure be taking that into account in the current discussion, as it certainly shows a strong level of commitment and, yes, sacrifice. Good luck in working this out. Keep open hearts and open minds.

 

[alisonb]

You didn't ask the women for an opinion but looks like you got some...think I'll just chime in as well :lol:

A name identifies an individual be they male or female. You were born MM and have lived and built up a reputation as MM which you can be proud of by the sounds of it.

I do believe that you should not be swayed by others opinions, the decision is entirely yours to make. I don't refer to your accomplishments or the inconveniences of a name change but to how you feel 'personally and emotionally' about relinquishing 'your' name.
A marriage is a partnership of two individuals, to love and respect and have a great future together.
Perhaps your fiance needs to see the difference between tradition that comes along with marriage and the meaning of marriage itself. Your future hubby's words concern me a little, he may be a great guy and all but is certainly not respecting your feelings in this matter and it would seem that he is making it all about 'him'.
"Enter the future Mr. MM's opinion. He feels it signifies not wanting to be part of "us", that everyone will look down on him for the rest of our lives because his wife doesn't think highly enough of him or respect him enough to take his last name, that refusing to do so is disrespectful".
Whatever happened to a level playing field, would he place himself in your shoes just for a moment and think about changing his name or how you feel??

It would seem that he needs some convincing that you do think highly of him without changing your name, that two individuals make an 'us' and that everyone will look 'up' to the two of you for what you have achieved ;-) .

You either hold on to your identity or become someone's wife...

All the best, we will still call you MM

 

[dun]

I've had my say and also my wifes, so that's done. What I forgot was Congratulations! I was always told you don;t congratulate a woman because it implies you don;t think she was good enough to ever catch a husband. BS! I've known you (through these boards) for a good number of years and have always respected and admired you and particularly you having stuck it out and becoming a vet. Watching you and Jake grow into mature adults has been a real pleasure. What ever happens good luck.

 

[Bright Raven]

Good guys are hard to find; I kinda believe a girl should make every effort to keep one when she finds him.

Not true. Just look at all the "good guys" on this forum. ;-) The only drawback to some is they might shoot every friend that comes up your driveway. :cboy:

At the end of the day, the two of you will make a decision. The process of making that decision will be vastly more important than what you decide to do.

 

[HDRider]

Go forth and multiply.... All God's blessing to you and him, and to all you love.

 

[TexasBred]

Go forth and multiply.... All God's blessing to you and him, and to all you love.

CT..now offering free family planning advice. :lol: :lol2:

 

[Dave]

I've had my say and also my wifes, so that's done. What I forgot was Congratulations! I was always told you don;t congratulate a woman because it implies you don;t think she was good enough to ever catch a husband. BS! I've known you (through these boards) for a good number of years and have always respected and admired you and particularly you having stuck it out and becoming a vet. Watching you and Jake grow into mature adults has been a real pleasure. What ever happens good luck.

I want to echo what Dun said. And PM me and let me know where you have landed. In our travels the wife and I would like to stop and say hello.

 

[Brute 23]

Sooo you moved 640 miles away to a completely new job... completely new area... and you are worried about your name change effecting your work..... sorry... I still don't see it :???:

... and you listing how you moved from you awesome house and awesome job to his POS world kind of goes along with the other red flags.

I admit I am biased because Im at the age where every one is getting married for the first go round and I am seeing the horror stories. Seems like every year in town a female bales on her family to fulfill her life and get her identity back in Austin or Dallas. I don't feel people take marriage as serious as they should. They would rather negotiate it like a business deal.

I know guys that stuff like that has happened to. They date girls for years, decide to make the jump, propose, start making plans and she turns to you and goes... Oh by the way... Im going to keep my name... thats cool right... no biggy? Its a kick in the nuts... that is what it is. I know another guy who married a girl and two years in she refuses to go to any of his family events. What do you do?

The world is going crazy and it starts with stuff like this IMO. He said it was a 9 out of 10.... is there any thing else to discuss? Damn I feel bad for this guy. .

Yesterday I text a girl I have been dating for a while and asked her if she would take the guys name if she got married just to be sure so I don't get blind sided if it were to get to that point.