M5farm
Well-known member
seen it done many times. as long as you get the debris cleared between rows it will work.
Will this work???
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greybeard
Well-known member
Yes, it will work. Did 60 acres the same way. If you have some humidity, and a good bug population, "most" of the pine stumps will rot out within 3 years, but you're gonna hate them till they do. Hope you have a good heavy duty bush hog with a good stumpjumper on it.
Once you get rid of the trees and open the ground up to light, be prepared for an onslaught of weeds and other undesirables to suddenly start sprouting up. Seeds are already in your soil--they just needed some sunlight and moisture to get started.
Soil sample it before you plant grass!! You may need to lime it.
Pics:
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=86844
Once you get rid of the trees and open the ground up to light, be prepared for an onslaught of weeds and other undesirables to suddenly start sprouting up. Seeds are already in your soil--they just needed some sunlight and moisture to get started.
Soil sample it before you plant grass!! You may need to lime it.
Pics:
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=86844
denvermartinfarms
Well-known member
Guess it will work, if anyway possible push the trees stump and all then cut the logs out, and you have no stumps. That the only way we'll do it here. Just don't push them to far and they'll be fine to cut on.
gonzo
Well-known member
I do a small section of woods every year if I can't push the stumps with my own machines , I cut them flush so you can brush hog.
pdfangus
Well-known member
heck not only will it work.....
I have seeded grass by feeding the hay on the cut over land.
I have seeded grass by feeding the hay on the cut over land.
The only problem I see is the amount of space that will be wasted by the stumps. No matter how low you cut them the grass won;t grow in those spots so you are actaully sacrificing a signicant acreage by leaving the stumps.
pdfangus
Well-known member
yeah but they rot out pretty quick and at no cost....
i have reverted to being a minimalist......the easiest money to earn is the money you do not spend....
making the new land part of an intensive rotational grazing scheme will bring it along even faster.
i have reverted to being a minimalist......the easiest money to earn is the money you do not spend....
making the new land part of an intensive rotational grazing scheme will bring it along even faster.
pdfangus
Well-known member
Kscattle":1pfg54k2 said:
he said up front that the trees were 40 year old pines....
pines go fairly quickly....
Dave
Well-known member
As a kid I remember them referring to places as "stump ranches". there were lots of stump ranches around. Cows just grazed around the stumps. Those old growth fir and cedar stumps lasted forever. But cows don't seem to mind walking around them. Come to think about it there are still four of those old fir stumps on my place. And it was logged in 1905.
denvermartinfarms
Well-known member
I have some pines down here, but I'm not pushing them over for nothing.dun":183jrztf said:
Newberry Creek
Well-known member
One thing you need to be aware of is as the stumps rot, they will leave holes. You could call them booby traps. I have had the experience on my horse and on foot while quail hunting several times. You can't see the hole because there is a crust of topsoil over it but it will not hold up a horse, cow or man.
tnwalkingred
Well-known member
I have a 160 acre farm however it's mostly wooded. I'm meeting with a logger tomorrow who wants the cedar. He will cut it all flush with the ground and pile up the tops so we can burn it (or so he says). Once all the cedar is gone I will then see how much hardwood I want to have logged. Once we select cut the hardwood I plan on having a mulching machine come in and grin the tops and stumps. They charge 250 an hour but say they can do 2 acres a day. It will take a while and some money but will still be keeper thAn buying a farm.
KW
KW
greybeard
Well-known member
About the pine stumps...
Talk to a forester in YOUR area before cutting. It makes a difference what time of year the tree is cut, in regards to how quickly the stumps rot. If, you can wait 1 year after logging the pine, the stump grinding will go much much faster, with fewer carbide teeth having to be replaced. Been there and done it. The guy that did my grinding initially said he could do 100 stumps/day, till he found out they had been cut less than 3 months earlier, and he then backtracked to 50/day. He worked non-stop for 8 hrs/day and 50 was about all he could do. I had some more ground a year later and he got more than 150/day. It makes a big difference if you can wait. Did here anyway.
And, if cut when the resin level is high, the stumps take much longer to rot.
Even if ground below ground level, you will still have some holes and hollows as the roots rot out.
Even oak and sweetgum here will begin to rot pretty good in about 1 year. It's mostly bug action that does it. Ants, termites, beetles.
If your logger actually cuts the trees at ground level, I'll be really surprised. They just don't like doing it that low even with a shear. Something about that bole being on the end of the log gets a hit at the mill.
Once cleared, have a herbicide sprayer ready. When that sunlight hits it the first wet spring, every seed and rhizome in the soil is going to germinate like mad. Trust me on that.
Talk to a forester in YOUR area before cutting. It makes a difference what time of year the tree is cut, in regards to how quickly the stumps rot. If, you can wait 1 year after logging the pine, the stump grinding will go much much faster, with fewer carbide teeth having to be replaced. Been there and done it. The guy that did my grinding initially said he could do 100 stumps/day, till he found out they had been cut less than 3 months earlier, and he then backtracked to 50/day. He worked non-stop for 8 hrs/day and 50 was about all he could do. I had some more ground a year later and he got more than 150/day. It makes a big difference if you can wait. Did here anyway.
And, if cut when the resin level is high, the stumps take much longer to rot.
Even if ground below ground level, you will still have some holes and hollows as the roots rot out.
Even oak and sweetgum here will begin to rot pretty good in about 1 year. It's mostly bug action that does it. Ants, termites, beetles.
If your logger actually cuts the trees at ground level, I'll be really surprised. They just don't like doing it that low even with a shear. Something about that bole being on the end of the log gets a hit at the mill.
Once cleared, have a herbicide sprayer ready. When that sunlight hits it the first wet spring, every seed and rhizome in the soil is going to germinate like mad. Trust me on that.
skyhightree1
Well-known member
greybeard":1ir40l1b said:
He is right about the herbicides next time I hunt at my grandmothers place I will take pics of the timber investment tract she owns where they cut 200 acres almost 2 years ago in some places others they cut last year and have been replanted and show you the pine stumps after 2 years what they look like. I already replanted my tract I had cut this year but will be spraying more than likely for a while.
skyhightree1
Well-known member
dogs and cows here are a list of them in the link i provided but to answer your question as to what is sprayed I do not know because the logging company that we use to cut our timber organizes and makes sure its carried out and its either done by a helicoptor or plane. The purpose of your usage is a lil different from ours is we get them to spray to kill the competition weeds so the newly planted trees can get a jump start but if I were trying to do what you were doing I would spray round up and 2,4d probably. I have never did a pasture the way you are doing yours and can only suggest how I would do it but im sure those that have did it that way will do so.
http://extension.psu.edu/natural-resour ... herbicides
http://extension.psu.edu/natural-resour ... herbicides
greybeard
Well-known member
I turned mine into pasture. Sprayed Remedy and 2,4D--mixed together with water and non-ionic surfactant.
2 qts remedy
2 qts 2,4d
1 1/2 pints surfactant
100 gallons of water.
BUT, it depends WHICH undesirables you find after you cut it. Your problem weeds and brush will probably be different than mine.
You will most likely have at least "some" native grasses come up after the sunlight gets in, so you don't want to spray glycosphate (Roundup)--it is non-selective--kills everything, including desirable grasses. If you kill off everything, and have any slope to your land, you are apt to run into erosion problems.
You really need to plan this. Walk it now, mark which trees you want to leave. You have cedar, and the younger ones make excellent windbreaks for winter. Leave some hardwood trees in a bunch, but thin 'em out so you can easily mow between them--you leave some because you will want some shade for the cows in mid summer. If you have a pond on it, or think you may build one, map that out and leave some trees where it's bank will be--especially on the southwest side.
I did not do all of this very well, and wish now I had done it different.
The loggers are gonna leave an unholy mess--they're only interested in getting their salable logs and moving on. If you want a part of it 100% clearcut--put that in your contract. Don't let them tell ya they'll come back and clear cut the junk stuff off after the job---they're liable to just laod all their equipment and leave as soon as the last good load of logs is loaded. Otherwise, they'll leave a crapload of saplings all over the place for you to deal with, especially if your local mills aren't taking any pulpwood or chip'nsaw. It happens. You, or someone you trust, needs to sit on that logging job too--count the # of loads that leave there and what kind of logs are on the trucks. I ain't saying loggers will steal, but it's pretty common around here for them to haul 4 loads one day and only give you 3 tickets. ! If they tell ya "We're good stewards of the land", they're talking about THEIR land--not yours.
Make sure your contract with them includes a clause that if they take down or tear down any fences or gates, that they WILL replace them or repair the damage. Watch 'em---like a hawk!!
I don't mean all loggers are unscrupoulous, but I have seen some real trainwrecks here in East Texas with some of them.
Check with your county and state too---some areas pay a per acreage benefit for brush control. It won't be much but will help offset some of your eventual costs.
2 qts remedy
2 qts 2,4d
1 1/2 pints surfactant
100 gallons of water.
BUT, it depends WHICH undesirables you find after you cut it. Your problem weeds and brush will probably be different than mine.
You will most likely have at least "some" native grasses come up after the sunlight gets in, so you don't want to spray glycosphate (Roundup)--it is non-selective--kills everything, including desirable grasses. If you kill off everything, and have any slope to your land, you are apt to run into erosion problems.
You really need to plan this. Walk it now, mark which trees you want to leave. You have cedar, and the younger ones make excellent windbreaks for winter. Leave some hardwood trees in a bunch, but thin 'em out so you can easily mow between them--you leave some because you will want some shade for the cows in mid summer. If you have a pond on it, or think you may build one, map that out and leave some trees where it's bank will be--especially on the southwest side.
I did not do all of this very well, and wish now I had done it different.
The loggers are gonna leave an unholy mess--they're only interested in getting their salable logs and moving on. If you want a part of it 100% clearcut--put that in your contract. Don't let them tell ya they'll come back and clear cut the junk stuff off after the job---they're liable to just laod all their equipment and leave as soon as the last good load of logs is loaded. Otherwise, they'll leave a crapload of saplings all over the place for you to deal with, especially if your local mills aren't taking any pulpwood or chip'nsaw. It happens. You, or someone you trust, needs to sit on that logging job too--count the # of loads that leave there and what kind of logs are on the trucks. I ain't saying loggers will steal, but it's pretty common around here for them to haul 4 loads one day and only give you 3 tickets. ! If they tell ya "We're good stewards of the land", they're talking about THEIR land--not yours.
Make sure your contract with them includes a clause that if they take down or tear down any fences or gates, that they WILL replace them or repair the damage. Watch 'em---like a hawk!!
I don't mean all loggers are unscrupoulous, but I have seen some real trainwrecks here in East Texas with some of them.
Check with your county and state too---some areas pay a per acreage benefit for brush control. It won't be much but will help offset some of your eventual costs.
skyhightree1
Well-known member
Very true statement GB has said :clap: My grandfather started out logging and some of the messes other people created we had to clean up so I know exactly what GB is talking about. I must say the logger I use cleans up really well cause he chips everything he can but it is still a messy process no matter which way you slice it but some loggers are better than others. I also would advise if your forestry department has a list of approved loggers try to select one of them.
