Why would anyone be against banding?

[Alan]

Why would anyone be against banding new born calves? My Vet even said they prefer to castrate. Any danger with banding?

Thanks,
Alan

 

[fellersbarnoneranch]

I like the growth we get by leaving them natural. Don't have a problem with banding so long as both berries end up in the basket. That is my only complaint about banding VERY EARLY--testicle descention a tricky thing for a beginner. Big bands, however, are a different story in my book--no thank you!

 

[Alan]

Spoke with my Vet and he said the problem is getting the band too high on the "basket" and pinching off the urianary track. Any thoughts? I always assumed banding newborns was a pretty common practice.

Alan

 

[shorty]

I haven't banded newborns in years we switched to a big bander a few years ago and it works good for us . We always give a tetnas shot when we band.

 

[dcara]

Below is a link to a paper out of Texas A&M titled "Dehorning, Castrating, and Branding". The castration stuff starts on pg 2 I think and covers the advantages and disadvantages of various castration techniques and recommnded age range.

http://animalscience.tamu.edu/ansc/publ ... orning.pdf

I also read another paper about a year ago that suggested 6 to 7mo as the best age for banding for beef cattle. Stated reason was that data indicated they would put on weight faster up to 6 or 7 months if not castrated. Castrating after 7mo had higher incident of complications and slower recovery time.

 

[cowgal]

What about the calf-fries? I think we would miss them if we banded.

 

[Scotty]

My vet said the risk of tetnus is to high. And if you see one with tetnus you wouldn't do it again. I band and have not had any problems. Mine usually weigh 300 -400 and I give a tetnus shot.


Scotty

 

[Farmhand]

We band very early. From newborn to a week old. We did get one to high once and it got infected. As long as you have both peas and release the band just above them, you will be fine. Sometimes do have trouble finding both but if you release the pressure a little on the leg you are holding up, you can find them pretty easy. Sometimes they suck them up into the body cavity but if you just hold them down and wait without touching them there, they will release them again. Theory is, they gain better if you wait til older to band/castrate but the studies I have seen did not show a big enough difference for us to change what we do.

 

[jt]

how often do any of you have trouble caused from banding these little fellers.. at birth.. just curious, cause seems like it would be so easy to just cut em.. i bought all the stuff to band, but havent had the nerve to start using it :roll: :lol:

i guess i am old school and cutting at that age has always worked...havent been able to make myself band them, guess i am skeered of problems...

jt

 

[dun]

We band very early. From newborn to a week old. We did get one to high once and it got infected. As long as you have both peas and release the band just above them, you will be fine. Sometimes do have trouble finding both but if you release the pressure a little on the leg you are holding up, you can find them pretty easy. Sometimes they suck them up into the body cavity but if you just hold them down and wait without touching them there, they will release them again. Theory is, they gain better if you wait til older to band/castrate but the studies I have seen did not show a big enough difference for us to change what we do.

We band them when we work them in the spring. Anywhere from a couple of days to a month old. Only use a knife on those that won't fit in the bander. We had a bunch of fat scrotums last year from one bull. Our concern with cutting is the flys. We used to slap a handfull of pinetar on them and never had much of a problem. But we've never had a problem banding. All you really have to remember is count to two and if you don;t count two, cut the band and try again.

dun

 

[Alan]

The rest of the story... (Last night) I knew I had one close but moved them to the far pasture, best grass, anyway. Next morning at 7 am drove down to check cows, yea a newbie still wet and legs shaking, went into pasture to check things out, big bull calf. Drove back to the house and got new calf shots and the banding tool, back down to the far pasture. By then some cow had crapped on the newbies head down to the middle of the back, mom was trying to clean but it had to be bad, calf was shaking pretty bad and seemed cold laying down now. Drove back up to the house, got bucket of hot water and put a old towel in the dryer. Took the hot water and clean warm towels to clean the crap off the calf. Cleaned calf off and dried it with a warm towel out of the dryer. Gave calf shots and banded it and carried it (92lbs) about 150 yards to next pasture, chest is ready to explode but I went back to get mom through the gate without any others comming in to help. Weazed back to truck, at he house my wife was headed out the door to go to work, told her we had a new bull calf, big, but got shots on board and got him banded... she flipped. She insisted I call the Vet to get his opinion on banding... he flipped. To recap it's now 9 am, so had a new calf that was crapped on and washed off in the farthest pasture from the barn I have, I about had a heart attack carrying him to saftey, than scolded by wife and Vet. So I then posted a message on the cattle boards, seems banding is not the best idea. 11 am went to check calf, has not moved from where I had laid him in the other pasture, moms teats are still dirty, tells me he has not nursed yet, looks weak to me. I walked a 1/4 mile back up to the barn, opening the gates on the way, got the wheel barrow and headed back to mom and calf. When I got back down to mom and calf I cut off the band and put the calf in the wheel barrow and headed to the barn (all up hill), all the way up the calfs head is laid back and eyes are rolled back in his head, mouth open and tounge hanging out, I knew I might lose this one. Chest again is ready to explode, got calf and mom into upper pasture by barn (still 200 yards away up hill), I realized I had another cow and calf in the stall in the barn from a last night delivery (doing fine). Pushed on as far as I could go, dumped calf out on dry ground. Took wheel barrow up to barn, went into stall and picked up the other hiefer calf and carried it to upper pasture hoping mom would follow across driveway... she almost did. Half and hour later hiefers mom is in the upper pasture, time to clean the stall. Stall cleaned and ready for new weak pair, so once again with the aid of the wheel barrow I scooped up the calf and placed him in the wheel barrow. Again, his head was laid back and eyes rolled back and tounge hanging out. Into the stall, I laid him in a fresh bed of hay, mom followed right in. To the house to pass out. Went down to check calf about an hour later, had not moved, moms teats were still dirty, calf looks to me to be very weak, I can't get him to stand. Went back up to the house to get some colostrum, it expired over 2 years ago, oops. I called vet and said I was on my way for 3 bags, wish I had a siren on the truck. Picked up the colostrum and flew home hoping not to get a ticket. I got home found the easiest bucket to wash out and mix the colostrum. Had not used the bottle for over two year so washed it and a nipple and rushed down to the barn ready for battle... yea, calf is up and nursing hard on mom...I named him you little S.O.B.

Thanks for the help
Alan

 

[txag]

Alan,

good to hear the calf is up and nursing.

i had a long response typed earlier & changed my mind because it seemed to be reiterating what others have said.

it's all a matter of preference. we've banded for years and have never had a problem. we band probably 30-50/year and have never lost one. about 95% are banded at birth but occasionally we'll band an older one (registered calf not making it as breeding stock or didn't catch one when it was born). at birth we do not give a tetanus shot but will if the calf is older than a couple of months.

i'm not sure if you were thinking the banding had anything to do with his listlessness but i have serious doubts that was the cause.

exactly why did your wife and vet freak about the banding?

 

[Workinonit Farm]

Wow, that is some story. Sounds like you had a rough morning. Good name for the calf. :lol:
As to your earlier question about banding, I always band when born, and so far have not had any problems. ( I have missed 1, a couple of times but as dun said, I cut the band and re-do it.) They do it the same way where I work, except for cows marked on the list for possible bull replacements. As far as I know they have not had problems. The vet they use seems to go along with that method.
Good luck with your calf.

Katherine

 

[Alan]

Thanks txag,

My wife freaked I think mostly because it is what wives and husbands do at times, my vet thought that it could cause a problems with tetanus and if not done right could get the urithea (sp) in the band causing some problems in th urinary tract.

I think it was weak simply because it was a big calf, hard birth, and got cold on wet ground and got even wetter soon after birth. It's eaisier to casterate later than to disagree with my wife, (remember the vet is on her side). ie; yes dear

Alan

 

[treytex]

How would you like a thick rubber band around your testicles for a few days. In fact I think anyone that would do that to a calf should do it to themselves

 

[Medic24]

Alan,,, question?
How long did you keep the band on him before you cut it back off?

Hope blood poisoning does not set in, if kept on too long, you may find that being strarved of blood/oxygen, may have 'killed' the nuts anyway. keep and eye on them.... if they swell , or turn colour, you may be in trouble.

Latest word from my vet, is decide to band only after several months, AND two doses of tetnus antitoxin. Allows the tostesterone to get going for a while, so that more bull like features are apperent.
Although he does prefer cutting better. We had a vet student here once, killed a calf after cutting it...bled out. :cboy:

 

[Arnold Ziffle]

Alan:

Soak in a hot tub -- drink several alcoholic beverages -- get a good night's rest

Keep repeating to yourself that "this is a fun business"

Tell wife to chill out

Tell vet to chill out

Tell cow to straighten up and fly right regarding her weapon of mass destruction

Get a 4-wheeler with a cart -- or a wagon -- or one of those 2 wheel , pull-type carriers like hunters use

By the way, good choice of names for the little guy

:lol: Sorry for the levity (that's what it was in case it was not obvious). I had one of those days from hell with one of my cows around this time last year, and I hope that I never again have a day that is even marginally comparable!!

 

[Alan]

How would you like a thick rubber band around your testicles for a few days. In fact I think anyone that would do that to a calf should do it to themselves

Treytex,

This calf was 2 or 3 hours old, I had the skin cut off my parts when I was 2 or 3 days old, don't remember it , hasn't effected me...except for those dreams..never mind.

Arnold,

Great advice, I have to look back on the day and smile...and go to bed early.

medic,

the band was only on about three hours and the calf was only about 2 hours old when I put it on, but he's in the barn and I'll keep an eye on it.

He has laid in a pile his mom made tonight...he's on his own.

Alan

[/quote]

 

[1848]

How would you like a thick rubber band around your testicles for a few days. In fact I think anyone that would do that to a calf should do it to themselves

I agree, I think it is much more humane to let them get vascular and get some nerve endings active first. Then when they are about 90 days old stall them, grab a hold of the bottom of scrotal sack with the thumb and forefinger, then with take a suture blade and slice the end of it off exposing the testicals inside the sack. Pull them out,..strip the cords/tubes down and again take the suture and cut the cords. They will only bleed momentarily and typically since they are still on the moma, she will keep it clean and no tetnus is necessary. Much more humane.. :lol:

I've done both. I wait for young ones to get about 30 days old to band. So I get both testicles, and I get the calf up strong enough before messing with him. The cutting seems to be a lot less trouble sometimes!

 

[brokenmouth]

How would you like a thick rubber band around your testicles for a few days. In fact I think anyone that would do that to a calf should do it to themselves

is that like tethering a white rooster out for coyote bait? maybe you should do that to yourself