which 4 heifers to keep?

[Nesikep]

I'm looking to what I'm going to keep over the winter as replacements, and though I have my mind reasonably made up, I'll ask for input on if anyone thinks I'm making any serious mistakes with any of them.

Since I know the pictures are going to be clipped, see them on photobucket at http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v153/Rx7man/Moo/, sorry about that

#1T, Volta, docile to humans, will be a pushy with other cows, should milk well, reasonable udder, should be around a frame 6 and won't be a fat looking cow. Her mother is 7

#4T, Atilla, will be the biggest by far, probably really close to 700 at weaning, LOVES ALL humans, but will be a witch with other cows, just like mother... Also, she'll be a giant in the herd, probably frame 7.. a tad big (and she'll EAT), historically bad hooves throughout the line, as well as bad udders,.. if the calf can find the teats, it'll do fine, but they have a lot of trouble with that. I don't think I'll keep her... she's not suited for our place, maybe in a big herd, or as a yard cow for someone who just wants one cow.... I'd like to reduce the amount of roan in the herd as well for uniformity, but that's a small factor... her mother is 5 years old

#6T, Ceres, This is undoubtedly the nicest calf of the year, good and thick with lots of meat in all the right places, friendly to me (not so much other people), and to other calves.. her mother is 4 years old
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v153/ ... G_6866.jpg

#7T, Vega, I have mixed feelings on this one, she doesn't have the meaty hindquarters I look for, but she has length and a good disposition... her mother is 4 as well

#8T, Chroma, I quite like this one, completely docile to humans and other cows, should have a good, small udder with lots of milk, her brothers looked great and were close to 700 lbs at weaning, and longevity seems to run in this line, grandmother and greatgrandmother were 2 of the 3 longest lived cows we've had. her mother is 6 years old... Photo doesn't show it too well, but she's got a nice dark red
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v153/ ... G_6891.jpg

#11T, Cenci, This girl is 2 months younger than most of the rest, so she's a bit smaller, but her weight gain is among the best so she's catching up, very similar in appearance to #6T, but slightly lighter boned.. Maternal sister to #8T's mother, Her mother is 15 and doing well
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v153/ ... G_6868.jpg

#51, Maxwell, This is the bull calf of the year, my dad's pick, below average birthweight (85 lbs), maternal brother to the bull calf we kept last year... I think he looks a little funny, and think he could gain a bit more weight, several steers are outdoing him... maybe we'll see what he's like in the spring
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v153/ ... G_6884.jpg

So what do you think of these calves?

 

[Roan]

Keep the roan, cenci and vega need to go, heart girth to narrow and bigger bristket. JMO

 

[RD-Sam]

I like 4T, 8T, and 11T so far.

 

[KNERSIE]

I could find holes in all of them, but if you picked the 4 who has the best dams you won't go too far wrong.

 

[Nesikep]

Well, you folk seem to really like the roan, and honestly, just to look at her without knowing her history, yes, she's great, but her attitude doesn't work for a small herd, and I don't really want a (er, another) cow as big as she will get, she'd make a great family cow though... When she was born, she couldn't find the teats, so we locked her mother in the headgate and got her to suck that way, but I tell you the strength she had!, she was born at 120 lbs and had the attitude to match, she was going to go where she wanted to and no one could stop her, the best I could do was lean on her to make her go in the direction I needed her to go... nothing has changed, she's got a heck of a will.

Anyone want her?


What about that bull calf?

 

[cowman]

keep em all

 

[Nesikep]

wish I could

 

[3waycross]

1,6,8,and 11

 

[Nesikep]

1,6,8,and 11

I like your thinking

 

[Australian]

I was going to say too keep them all.

 

[Gators Rule]

based on the expected shortage of females over the next couple of years....might consider keeping them if you don't have to sell...

 

[Nesikep]

We're kinda limited to 20-22 head, we have a couple we could cull at any time, so our hands are a little tied, especially in the pasture department, hay we have

 

[Nesikep]

OK, 3 weeks til weaning time... here are some pics


Chroma with mommy

Doesn't she look happy, Ceres

The young one, daughter of the 15 year old Rosie.. She's been gaining 3.7 lb/day

Talk about camouflage! Attilla the roan

And I'm keeping this guy as a feeder steer, 740 lbs @ 6 months

you can see all the images un-cropped at
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v153/Rx7man/Moo/

 

[2/B or not 2/B]

I agree with culling any from lines with bad udders and feet. I suppose there's a chance of breeding it out, but by the time you find out you've already invested years. I do love roans, but I wouldn't keep her. She was huge at birth and will grow to be an inefficient cow. I'm in a similar position here, small herd, hard choices. Yours are very nice so I can see why it's difficult. My favorite is 8T and my least favorite is 11T. I have some with small heart girths too and it's not something I want to perpetuate.

 

[VCC]

1T, 8T, 6T, 11T. I real like the way the 11T is coming on she is packing some muscle yet still looks feminine
You listed enough reasons not to keep the roan,
7T, looks real straight on her front end, I do not like the way her shoulder is set. She is looking a little arched in her top line already.

2B look at 11T in newer picture she does not look tight hearted at all

 

[Nesikep]

2B, I know exactly what it's like with a small herd, it's probably far more difficult to manage than a large herd,... just to take the bulls for example, if you only have one, you have to get rid of him while he is still producing well just because of inbreeding, which doesn't happen on a larger herd (much).

8T and 11T are very closely related, 8T's mother is 11T's maternal sister, so that makes them 3/4 sisters I think... Also, 8T is 3/4 sister to 5S ('Mega') from last year

With the roan, My culling priorities are according to the ones that cause me the most grief, bad hooves, udders and attitudes cause a lot more grief than a bit a tight heart girth

Speaking of that, if the heart girth is tight, but you get their weight from it, you would say that a tight girthed animal would have a lower weight (by tape) compared to it's real wieght... at last measurement, 11T was 580lbs I think, which I would think actually is optimistic. She does have an enormous amount of muscle on her... for that, she's the best calf of the year... My complaint about her would be more that she could have more length, and for that 8T is much better... I'll be able to say much more about all these calves in 2 years of course though

 

[DOC HARRIS]

In the past, it seems that many Forum members are not interested in being assisted in learning technics and philosophies in regard to beef cattle selection, and the reasons for focusing on certain traits and characteristics in their evaluation and choices of replacement seedstock. That is their option, their right, and is at their descretion. The undeniable fact of the importance of making correct selection decisions is - it takes a LONG TIME to correct and overcome even a slight error in concentrating and focusing on inappropriate or even detrimental genetic traits or characteristics when retaining seedstock heifers.

That said, my philosophy of seedstock selection incorporates a concentrated focus of attention on BALANCING characteristics and traits concerned with PROFIT! "Single Trait Selection" methods of improving one's seedstock choices is NOT concentrating on Profit.

Nesikep, your culling priorities ( grief, bad hooves, udders, attitudes and LARGE size ) are functional traits, which are of extreme importance, but not primary considerations when,balancing phenotype, genotype and functional traits. The Basic EPD's (BW, WW, YW, Milk, IMF, REA) should ALWAYS be considered. THEN the functional traits follow the visual decisions and genetic factors involved. Your decision making insofar as your current protocols are concerned seem to be in line with your goals. My only question is - are your goals in line with profit - or comfort?

Just something to think about.

DOC HARRIS

 

[RD-Sam]

8T is still my favorite, and I would keep 11T, pic isn't a good one, but she looks good from what I can see.

 

[3waycross]

Maybe I am wrong headed in selection but earlier in this thread I said 1,6,8,11 and Nesikep PM'd me and asked what was my criteria. I simply told him I eliminated the ones I just didn't like and kept the rest.

I really think that most of the time we look at a group of cattle and "Know" who needs to go but don't allow ourselves to follow our gut.

 

[Nesikep]

I do admit a lot of the things I cull for are based on comfort, but at the end of it all, they still need to have a good calf at the end of every year, because that is what keeps the pocketbook full (relatively speaking).

the 6 calves I first listed are the short-list of a total of 12 heifer calves.. you didn't get to see all the others that just didn't grow respectably... 2 of them are from first timers, and in that consideration, they do well