whats the difference hereford polled vs horned

[Supa Dexta]

Cause in general in makes you more money.. All the reason you need.

 

[Rafter S]

I've used both horned and polled Herefords on my Brangus cows, so dealing with horns hasn't been an issue.

 

[ez14]

Okay can we talk about why black hided beef is the best? :hide: :hide:[/quote]
maybe i should start a thread just for alan. Why black cattle are better :lol: :lol: :lol: :hide:

 

[dun]

Okay can we talk about why black hided beef is the best? :hide: :hide:

maybe i should start a thread just for alan. Why black cattle are better :lol: :lol: :lol: :hide:[/quote]
I thought everyone knew "black is beautiful"

 

[Petercoates87]

I read somewhere that years ago cattle were much bigger than they are today. I'm talking hundred or more year now.

 

[ez14]

I read somewhere that years ago cattle were much bigger than they are today. I'm talking hundred or more year now.

I have heard that to. Does any body know more on that?

 

[Rafter S]

I read somewhere that years ago cattle were much bigger than they are today. I'm talking hundred or more year now.

I have some old cattle magazines from the late '30s and '40s, and the mature cattle pictured there weren't much over waist high on a grown man. I realize that's not 100 years ago, but would they have shrunk that much in 20 or 30 years?

 

[ez14]

I read somewhere that years ago cattle were much bigger than they are today. I'm talking hundred or more year now.

I have some old cattle magazines from the late '30s and '40s, and the mature cattle pictured there weren't much over waist high on a grown man. I realize that's not 100 years ago, but would they have shrunk that much in 20 or 30 years?

I don't know but I heard that there was a lot of debate back in the day about people breeding there cattle to be to small and that's when they got smaller

 

[WalnutCrest]

I read somewhere that years ago cattle were much bigger than they are today. I'm talking hundred or more year now.

I have some old cattle magazines from the late '30s and '40s, and the mature cattle pictured there weren't much over waist high on a grown man. I realize that's not 100 years ago, but would they have shrunk that much in 20 or 30 years?

...and the average person in the 1930s is smaller than the average person today...

 

[Supa Dexta]

Animals used to be kept for yrs also. Steers would be used for draught animals. etc. But yes they were bred bigger as well. They weren't pushing calves to be ready by 15mo of age.

 

[djinwa]

Is there someone watching you every second of the day currently, to ensure you don't do anything illegal?

But get caught and its gonna cost you. Castration is already heading that way, and new rules are coming for us up here regarding when and how we can do it. Parts of europe already have this in place. And if you think animal rights pressure is going to subside in the coming years, you're foolish. I'm not pushing for it, but I am warning you its coming.

I agree with you. Ive noticed it on Facebook and many people commented that it is cruel to dehorning and castrating the livestock. It is very scary that most people would believe anything on the Internet even if it's not true, just like the Belgian Blue being stereotyped as a "GMO cattle on steriods".

First off, most businesses don't criticize their customers, but try to give them what they want, which makes them more money.

Doesn't seem that crazy to me to believe dehorning and castrating is cruel. There is pain involved, and if done to a human, we would agree it is cruel. Not saying it isn't necessary, but we could at least avoid pain when we can. Most the time reducing stress and pain is good for the animals and the owner's bottom line. For example, most of us now understand we need to handle cattle more gently to reduce stress, and the immunosuppression and illness that follows. Most realize that beating and hot shots are not great. But years ago cattlemen probably resisted the critics against them. Playing cowboy was the "true" way to do it.

I was on another site where someone had a Holstein bull calf they got for beef, but it was 9 months old. Many recommended castration, but it was pointed out that at that age there would be pain for a few weeks and stress, and it wouldn't gain much for a few months. Obviously would have been better to castrate when baby calf, but if we don't consider the negatives, many people will wait and cause significant stress and pain that is unnecessary.

Likewise, if it isn't any more work to have polled cattle, why not go that route and avoid pain as Supa Dexta mentioned.

And to stir things up further, we could have promoted red angus over blacks and avoided more heat stress, but we didn't care.

 

[JMJ Farms]

First off, most businesses don't criticize their customers, but try to give them what they want, which makes them more money.

I agree. But in this case what the customer wants is cheaper beef in the grocery store. You can't provide cheaper beef by increasing inputs (i.e. needing a vet to provide assistance, approval, drugs for sedation, etc) and labor costs. Simply stated.... More guidelines=higher costs (to be passed on to the consumer.)

I feel certain that most, if not all, the members on this board take excellent care of their cattle because they truly love and respect them (if not they wouldn't have them, bc we sure ain't got them to get rich). If these procedures in question are done when the cattle are newborn to a couple months old it's a very simple, harmless, and virtually painless process. But bc some people wait till the cattle are 600+ pounds to castrate and dehorn it causes the rest of us to be faced with more rules and regulations.

 

[ez14]

First off, most businesses don't criticize their customers, but try to give them what they want, which makes them more money.

I agree. But in this case what the customer wants is cheaper beef in the grocery store. You can't provide cheaper beef by increasing inputs (i.e. needing a vet to provide assistance, approval, drugs for sedation, etc) and labor costs. Simply stated.... More guidelines=higher costs (to be passed on to the consumer.)

I feel certain that most, if not all, the members on this board take excellent care of their cattle because they truly love and respect them (if not they wouldn't have them, bc we sure ain't got them to get rich). If these procedures in question are done when the cattle are newborn to a couple months old it's a very simple, harmless, and virtually painless process. But bc some people wait till the cattle are 600+ pounds to castrate and dehorn it causes the rest of us to be faced with more rules and regulations.

I agree that castration should be done young but what about a bull calf that might be used for breeding but doesnt turn out to be breeding quality

 

[Muddy]

Even these folks take care of their 600lbs bull calves very well. And they took care of their cattle very well after they dehorned them. But then again it is one time deal. There is some bloodless dehorning method that works good. These folks that felt it is cruel to castrate and dehorning cattle, never been to an actual farm in their whole life.

 

[ez14]

Even these folks take care of their 600lbs bull calves very well. And they took care of their cattle very well after they dehorned them. But then again it is one time deal. There is some bloodless dehorning method that works good. These folks that felt it is cruel to castrate and dehorning cattle, never been to an actual farm in their whole life.

I went to a farm that was castrating and giving shots and all to his about 600 lb calves and he had them knocked out and banded and by the time they woke up i think there sack was numb because they didnt seem to notice

 

[cbcr]

by Supa Dexta » Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:28 am
Everyone should be working towards polled animals. Like it or not, dehorning is going to be a major issue in the future. Properly done procedures, performed by vets with pain medication. Its coming.

That is very true, Europe seems to be a little more aggressive in this pursuit. The animal rights activists are behind this. For some breeds, polled does not exist or there are very few animals.

Just as what started the Polled Hereford was a mutation that causes animals to be born with no horns. Even when it happened in other breeds it wasn't promoted. In the Holstein breed as an example, polled bulls have been available but they were far behind their horned counterparts when it came to their proofs for production. It seems that producers with top genetic animals didn't breed them to polled bulls. Now with the animal right groups this has changed and we are seeing polled bulls used.

I recently read a report that they have successfully performed some gene editing to remove the horns, I don't remember where. But here is a link to an article with a little information. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...fety-bid-cut-risk-injury-farmers-animals.html

 

[JMJ Farms]

First off, most businesses don't criticize their customers, but try to give them what they want, which makes them more money.

I agree. But in this case what the customer wants is cheaper beef in the grocery store. You can't provide cheaper beef by increasing inputs (i.e. needing a vet to provide assistance, approval, drugs for sedation, etc) and labor costs. Simply stated.... More guidelines=higher costs (to be passed on to the consumer.)

I feel certain that most, if not all, the members on this board take excellent care of their cattle because they truly love and respect them (if not they wouldn't have them, bc we sure ain't got them to get rich). If these procedures in question are done when the cattle are newborn to a couple months old it's a very simple, harmless, and virtually painless process. But bc some people wait till the cattle are 600+ pounds to castrate and dehorn it causes the rest of us to be faced with more rules and regulations.

I agree that castration should be done young but what about a bull calf that might be used for breeding but doesnt turn out to be breeding quality

I have no problem with castrating a 600 pound bull. Its not ideal, however I was just implying that it isn't the norm. But it's not cruel torture like some idealists think it is. Sure it hurts. So does a tooth being pulled :lol2:

 

[elkwc]

There are different opinions on this forum about management practices and gladly we can still voice our opinion even if it is different than the majority or what the experts say is right. We each have to adjust our practices to what fits our operation. I have cut bulls that weighed 1,000 lbs with no issue. And if needed would again. But there are other options available for both castrating and dehorning if you have the time. There is a bander available that works very well on both. I've seen old roping steers dehorned. It is as painless as you could make the procedure. Also you can use a paste when they are small on the nubbins. I know many that do that. I hate to see posters attack a fellow cattleman just because their practice isn't the same as the one they use. I know breeders that never cut a bull calf. What is the producer who buys this calf suppose to do if he weighs say 600 lbs? Again I see way more abuse to animals including cattle than the castrating and dehorning if it is done appropriately.

Back to what the original post was about. Here is this area the issue between polled and horned comes down to quality, availability and price. The average quaility of a horned Hereford in this area is higher than that of his polled counterpart. I've talked to several breeders, feeder buyers, feedlot managers and sale barn owners in this area and most share that view. Likewise when you find a good quality polled animal they are priced higher which many times makes them not an economical option for a commercial breeder. Most of the time the better polled cattle will have a strong horned influence so not homozygous polled so no benefit to using them over a straight horned bull. The other issue many are expressing now and what I've seen in my 2 year search for some good polled cattle is that many polled breeders are following the trend of the show world to the shorter cattle that can't handle a cake and grass environment. In the end each breeder has to make his own decision on what will work best for them. I personally want to sell at the top of the market so tend to select bulls that will sire calves that will do so regardless if they have horns or polled. At this point horned cattle in my opinion offer the best most affordable option.

 

[Son of Butch]

I read somewhere that years ago cattle were much bigger than they are today. I'm talking hundred or more year now.

I have some old cattle magazines from the late '30s and '40s, and the mature cattle pictured there weren't much over waist high on a grown man. I realize that's not 100 years ago, but would they have shrunk that much in 20 or 30 years?

Stature is the trait with the highest heritability making it the easiest to influence through genetic selection.
2nd is scrotal circumference
3rd are birth weights
There is also a direct correlation between mature height and mature weight, so yes cattle size can change a lot in 40 years.

 

[Tim/South]

It is easier to find a good horned hereford than it is to find a good polled hereford.

It is hard to find a horned hereford of any quality other than mini ones here but the polled hereford is dirty common as black angus cow. Plenty of quality polled hereford bulls tho.

http://debterherefordfarm.com/bull-sale/
This place is close to me. They have some really nice bulls that bring a premium.
I went to several farms that advertised polled herefords before I found one to bring home. Those of you that have good polled Herefords to chose from are lucky.