Weaning calves before selling

[choward2955jd]

I was wandering how many of you folks wean your calves before you sell them? On our farm we sell them the day they come off the cow 500-600lbs. With the price of feed and price at the market it does not make sense to hold on to them. How does everyone else sell them.

 

[Ashton V]

We do the same. Only calves that get grain are our replacement heifers we are holding on to. With grain and beef prices up, it is profitable.

 

[cbcr]

In many cases buyers would rather buy calves right off the cow than for them to be weaned for only 2 or 3 weeks and then sell, due to less stress.

There are some programs that require the calves to be weaned 45 days, but with grain prices, there is no way that doing so can in todays markets be profitable.

 

[Angus Cowman]

I know at the salebarns around here if you sell weaned calves vs wet calves you will see atleast a $.05 cent spread on them and it usually is up close to $.10
also with calf prices as high as they are and feed prices up it isn't any different feeding them this yr than it has been in the past
My calves have to be weaned and vacc'ed as I don't sell thru the salebarn except for odd or lights

if feed is costing you $.80 to get a lb of gain and 6 wts are selling for $1.30 you can still afford to feed them calves it is simple math
if calves are weaned properly you won't have much shrink and they market better around here

 

[Angus Cowman]

In many cases buyers would rather buy calves right off the cow than for them to be weaned for only 2 or 3 weeks and then sell, due to less stress.

There are some programs that require the calves to be weaned 45 days, but with grain prices, there is no way that doing so can in todays markets be profitable.

Please explain as we are also experiencing all time high calf prices

when I can take a calf at weaning and have an ADG of 1.97 and it is costing me $.98 to feed that calf and he is gaining an extra lb per day because of this feed how is it not feasible
when that lb is worth $1.30 or more
I based the feed on $280 pr ton and feeding 7lbs pr day which my feed isn't that high and the conversion is pretty close
the ADG is what I had last yr as an average

 

[bigbull338]

we also wean our calves on the trailer.because thats what works for us.last year we sent them to the sale as light weights 400 to 600lbs.only had 2 calves that was 775 ave.

 

[dun]

The last bunch of prevac calves, weaned 45 days and vacinated brought 15 cents a pound over the nonweanvac calves. But that was 2 different weeks and as bizarre as prices have been it might have been a fluke. In years past the difference ran a nickel to a dime more per pound for weanvac calves

 

[SRBeef]

In many cases buyers would rather buy calves right off the cow than for them to be weaned for only 2 or 3 weeks and then sell, due to less stress.

There are some programs that require the calves to be weaned 45 days, but with grain prices, there is no way that doing so can in todays markets be profitable.

I am not in this end of the market but do not understand the discussion about grain prices regarding wean and vac calves.

Why not just keep them on hay for the 45 days? They should be able to keep putting on weight on just good hay and mineral. Maybe some grain the last week or two so they know what a feedbunk is but hay primarily over the 45 days.

I wean my calves at about 205 days in early to mid Nov. At this age they have been grazing for most of their nutrition along with most still getting some mama's milk. I fenceline wean in Nov coming out of the chute after fall vaccinations and deworm. Very little stress or weight drop, if any.

They then go on whatever grazing is left and hay. My weight numbers show very little slowdown in gain. Then in late December the steers and heifers for processing go to grazing corn or could be sold as wean/vac. The retained heifers move back in with the cows.

So if you are selling for feedlots why not just feed them mostly on remaining grazing and hay after weaning and shots rather than feeding them expensive grain? I would only grain them in bunks at the end so they are "bunk broke" for your buyers in addition to being 45 day weaned and vaccinated. done this way they should be worth a premium at sale time.

They should also be putting on weight and hit the market at a better time for prices?

Jim

 

[Howdyjabo]

Not everyone has natural grass that will put weight on a newly weaned calf without some supplements.

 

[SRBeef]

Not everyone has natural grass that will put weight on a newly weaned calf without some supplements.

Actually I don't have that sort of grass in November in Wisconsin either. But what about just feeding the weaned calves mostly hay? 3% of body weight on a 600 lb calf is still only 18 lb of hay a day. A $60-70 dollar 1500 lb bale of good hay in a feed ring along with a mineral tub will go a long ways with weaned calves.

Jim

at $70/1500 lb 5x6 ft bale x 18 lb/day = about 85 cents a day in hay + maybe .15/day in mineral = about $1.00/day cost per calf.

if over 45 day weaning we can average even 1.6-1.9 lb/day gain and using a conservative number for calves of $1.00/lb selling price, that means each calf is earning a net profit of at least 60-90 cents per day during the 45 day post weaning/vac period, probably more. Not to mention prices may be higher in January than in November. Am I missing something?

 

[Howdyjabo]

Your hay is better than mine

 

[Angus Cowman]

Not everyone has natural grass that will put weight on a newly weaned calf without some supplements.

Actually I don't have that sort of grass in November in Wisconsin either. But what about just feeding the weaned calves mostly hay? 3% of body weight on a 600 lb calf is still only 18 lb of hay a day. A $60-70 dollar 1500 lb bale of good hay in a feed ring along with a mineral tub will go a long ways with weaned calves.

Jim

at $70/1500 lb 5x6 ft bale x 18 lb/day = about 85 cents a day in hay + maybe .15/day in mineral = about $1.00/day cost per calf.

if over 45 day weaning we can average even 1.6-1.9 lb/day gain and using a conservative number for calves of $1.00/lb selling price, that means each calf is earning a net profit of at least 60-90 cents per day during the 45 day post weaning/vac period, probably more. Not to mention prices may be higher in January than in November. Am I missing something?

Jim using your numbers that is $90 a ton for hay at 18 lbs that comes out to $.81 pr calf per day so and I can get more gain with less feed and around the same money on inputs
around here hay good enough to get the gains like you are talking will run in the $120 to $140 per ton range and last yr my feed cost were at $152 pr ton so the hay would actually be higher priced per lb of gain

 

[Angus Cowman]

Not everyone has natural grass that will put weight on a newly weaned calf without some supplements.

Actually I don't have that sort of grass in November in Wisconsin either. But what about just feeding the weaned calves mostly hay? 3% of body weight on a 600 lb calf is still only 18 lb of hay a day. A $60-70 dollar 1500 lb bale of good hay in a feed ring along with a mineral tub will go a long ways with weaned calves.

Jim

at $70/1500 lb 5x6 ft bale x 18 lb/day = about 85 cents a day in hay + maybe .15/day in mineral = about $1.00/day cost per calf.

if over 45 day weaning we can average even 1.6-1.9 lb/day gain and using a conservative number for calves of $1.00/lb selling price, that means each calf is earning a net profit of at least 60-90 cents per day during the 45 day post weaning/vac period, probably more. Not to mention prices may be higher in January than in November. Am I missing something?

Jim using your numbers that is $90 a ton for hay at 18 lbs that comes out to $.81 pr calf per day so and I can get more gain with less feed and around the same money on inputs
around here hay good enough to get the gains like you are talking will run in the $120 to $140 per ton range and last yr my feed cost were at $152 pr ton so the hay would actually be higher priced per lb of gain

 

[cbcr]

Here are the figures: Weaned calves weighing 500 lbs.

Take directly to the sale off the cow, at the local sale last week averaged $161/cwt = $805

Now keeping the same cattle for 45 days.

Cattle will lose approx 3% of weight post weaning or about 15 lbs. so now calves ave 485 lbs.
Factor in vaccines and parasite control
feed cost - if they will consume 3% of their body weight and using numbers that some of you have posted here
$60 per ton for hay and $280 per ton for grain.
figure in 9.5% interest for costs.
and their could be some death loss

feeding 7 lbs grain per day and remainder in forage - here is the bottom line selling at the end of 45 days
1.75 lbs gain per day = 564 lb calf
2.00 lbs gain per day = 575 lb calf

Again ave at local sale last week for this size cattle was $150/cwt
564 lb calf = $846
575 lb calf = $862.50

Take the costs for the 45 days and the 564 lb calf lost almost $2.00 and the 575 lb calf made $5.00

If you are selling 50 calves fed for 45 days that is $250 more in your pocket. This figures out to $5.56 per day. How much time per day was spent in feeding, handling and caring for those cattle? Minimum wage is $7.25 per hour. So this means that just to break even you couln't have over 45 minutes per day in labor.

 

[choward2955jd]

What do you think of this??
I watched the sales in Lexington Ky this past week and i saw 400lbs bulls bring as much as $720.00 per head. I assume they were just off the cow. I find it hard to not sell when you can get that kind of money. I just dont see with the price of fuel and feed they are worth feeding. I am betting that hay could go as high $60.00 per roll 4x5 rolls this year due to fuel prices. I would rather cash in early than hold for a few more dollars. With the market the way it is now they could go bust anytime.
Thanks
Chris Howard
Ky Farmer and Ag Teacher

 

[SRBeef]

In Wisconsin you can buy decent beef cattle (not dairy) mixed hay (15% protein, 50% TDN, 92 RFV - Dry basis from my fall 2010 hay test) for $60-70 per 1500 lb 5x6 ft round bale. This is a moist climate. This is not true everywhere I am sure.

As far as labor goes, how long does it take and how many hours per head to put a 1500 lb round bale in a hay feed ring once a week or so along with put a barrel of mineralyx out once a month or so??? I don't think labor is a significant cost for that additional 45 days (assumes you already have the facility and land cost included earlier - just adding 45 days)

In the upper midwest I think it will probably pay to wean them for 45 days and vac especially with a premium on the price. Personally I would also feel better about selling fenceline weaned, vaccinated, bunk broke calves then ripping them off the cow and onto a truck, if I sold calves which I do not.

More importantly I think a good, quality-oriented buyer will appreciate calves like this on the other end of the sale. Buyers of calves destined for Wal-Mart probably don't care. Many other buyers might.

But this is jmho.

Jim

edit: I think fenceline weaning leads to less stress and less loss of gain which also contributes to profitability of holding them another 45 days. Changes in the market between weaning and 45 days later are obviously out of our immediate control. I don't have any concrete numbers but would think prices would typically be higher in January than in November when everyone else is selling calves off of the cow??

 

[Brandonm22]

If you are selling 50 calves fed for 45 days that is $250 more in your pocket. This figures out to $5.56 per day. How much time per day was spent in feeding, handling and caring for those cattle? Minimum wage is $7.25 per hour. So this means that just to break even you couln't have over 45 minutes per day in labor.

WHO in this business expects to get paid for their labor??? It would just be one more chore to attempt to catch some market premium money. Al you lose is some time in front of the TV. I am with Jim if you can't feed 50 calves with a truck and tractor in less than 45 minutes you probably need to see a doctor. Now you are right that if the market does not know that you put in the extra effort they probably are not going to pay you for it. Now if you go to the trouble to market those calves in some sort of program and get $.05 more per pound your $250 has turned in to $1537 even if you had to pay $3 a hd for some sort of special tag or something.

 

[dun]

If you are selling 50 calves fed for 45 days that is $250 more in your pocket. This figures out to $5.56 per day. How much time per day was spent in feeding, handling and caring for those cattle? Minimum wage is $7.25 per hour. So this means that just to break even you couln't have over 45 minutes per day in labor.

WHO in this business expects to get paid for their labor??? It would just be one more chore to attempt to catch some market premium money. Al you lose is some time in front of the TV. I am with Jim if you can't feed 50 calves with a truck and tractor in less than 45 minutes you probably need to see a doctor. Now you are right that if the market does not know that you put in the extra effort they probably are not going to pay you for it. Now if you go to the trouble to market those calves in some sort of program and get $.05 more per pound your $250 has turned in to $1537 even if you had to pay $3 a hd for some sort of special tag or something.

BINGO, we have a winner!
We fencline wean, the few calves we've weighed a week after weaning have all had a slightly higher weight then their weaning weight. It's usually only a couple of pounds but it isn;t a loss. During the 45 day weaning process they get either pasture, hay or pasture and hay and about 1% of their weight in a 13% grain ration split into 2 feedings. After 45 days the retained heifers go out with the cows and won;t see grain again until we either bring them in for spring workup or as yearlings when we use it to bring them up for AI. If the timing isn;t perfect to haul them to a prevac sale right at 45 days the steers and nonretained heifers are on a pasture, hay or pasture/hay feeding with no more grain. In the fall we buy a bulk grain hopper full and that will hold us till the following fall. The load last fall was 198 a ton

 

[Jim62]

At the salebarn, how would a buyer know if a calf has been weaned 45 days or 24 hours??

 

[dun]

At the salebarn, how would a buyer know if a calf has been weaned 45 days or 24 hours??

If they are entered in a prevac sale it's pretty much the honor system. But at the local barn if they suspect they don;t meet the criteria they sell with the non-prevac calves. In our case we provide the documentation to support it. Age source verified and Pfizer weanvac documentation. An order buyer that can;t tell the difference between a freshly weaned calf and one that's been weaned for a while won;t be in business very long.