Sold some the vet called open last fall, kept one that was called open. Vet said open end of Nov. she calved today which would put here being bred about Oct. 7th. One or two he called a month or two bred have not calved yet. Guess I need to use a different vet to preg check. :roll:
Vet's preg check accuracy?
- Thread starter tom4018
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TexasBred
Well-known member
Some are easier to call than others and a cow 30 days bred doesn't give you a lot to go on. A mistake anybody can make. I'd give him another chance.tom4018":190uinvj said:
Gale Seddon
Well-known member
Palpation or ultrasound? I think vets are fairly comfortable with U/S at about 30 days. My limited experience has led me to believe that it's easier to confirm a pregnancy than to predict how far along the pregnancy is. Too bad, as you might have kept some of those the vet said were open. Are you gonna tell the vet?
OP
OP
tom4018
Dumb Old Farmer
They were palpated,Gale Seddon":3jna99r7 said:
I will proabably tell him.
I will proably use a different vet next time though if his prices are not out of line. He did work here locally and went out on his own. I can get vets from 30 miles away come cheaper than the one 7 miles away.
A
Anonymous
A person can't fix a problem they don't know they have
I think palpating is actually as much voodoo as skill. Our vet usually hit's within about a week of the day they were AIed or when I add the pregnancy length the date they calve. That's "usually". One cow he has always called a month late rbred then she actualy is and he missed granny by 75 days one year. I always make aq point of pointing out the 75 day premature calf to him. At the dairy his accuracy isn;t nearly as good as it is for us, maybe it's a Holstein thing. But I've heard the same compalint about every vet I've heard of. That's the single biggest complaint I hear about all of the vets. It's been that way for 50 years and don;t look to it changing much.
Amo
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I usually re-preg my opens. I know I shouldn't have to, but we are all human. I had a really goofy thing happen once. Was pregging and vet called her open. Bout 2 weeks latter she calved! Still haven't figured that one out.
hillsdown
Well-known member
Dr U is really good , he asks for 36 days from AI'ing or the bull pulled. BUT even though he is an awesome vet he has called the odd one open ,when bred, once or twice over the last 15 years.
Sorry about your situation Tom. There are so many factors though to take into account , but yes you should talk to your vet. I am sure he would like to know .
Sorry about your situation Tom. There are so many factors though to take into account , but yes you should talk to your vet. I am sure he would like to know .
SRBeef
Well-known member
I put the bull in in June and my vet preg checks by palpation in early November. He has not missed one yet. I still remember the look on his face when he called one cow "open" and I said "are you sure?" His look told me the answer.
These are 4-5 months bred and been with the bull continuously since June. He usually gives me a "months bred" estimate to the half month also on each one and is usually within a week or two. I am not looking for an exact date but looking for any opens to cull before carrying through the winter. It does help me judge if the upcoming spring calving is likely to be as tight as I hope.
I don't keep any open females after weaning the March-April calves in November regardless of which cows/heifers they are.
In the OP's case it may be that asking a vet to give a definitive answer from palpation at 30-45 days is just asking too much. At that early stage of pregnancy, there may just be a certain number missed one way or the other.
Jim
These are 4-5 months bred and been with the bull continuously since June. He usually gives me a "months bred" estimate to the half month also on each one and is usually within a week or two. I am not looking for an exact date but looking for any opens to cull before carrying through the winter. It does help me judge if the upcoming spring calving is likely to be as tight as I hope.
I don't keep any open females after weaning the March-April calves in November regardless of which cows/heifers they are.
In the OP's case it may be that asking a vet to give a definitive answer from palpation at 30-45 days is just asking too much. At that early stage of pregnancy, there may just be a certain number missed one way or the other.
Jim
I have tried preg checking myself behind the vet just to learn how its done. Its a feel thing more than anything I have bred alot of cows working for AI companies and on big dairies and I had a hard time for a while I still use a vet obviously but I sometimes check cows before they go to sale or if I am curious. They use the amount of fingers they can fit across the fetus to date the pregnancy it goes from thumb as a month or so on to a full hand as being about 6 if I remember correct. Its not hard to palpate a cow if she is restrained properly i.e. not behind a gate in the middle of cow yard. If you have ever AIed a cow you could probubly tell if a cow is 6mo pregnant or greater.
TexasBred
Well-known member
Not how I was taught but if it works what the heck. In general vets are not that good as they don't spend that much time actually palpating unless they also work for a salebarn. There will be the occasional exception but palpating is something that has to be done everyday if possible. Once the light comes on it's like you have eyes in your fingers and you feel none of the stuff surrounding that reproductive tract. For most of us just knowing she's bred is good enough, Short bred cattle were always easier for me to "call" than those that were 7-8 months bred. One of the most sickening feelings in the world is to call a cow open, give her a shot of lutalyse and next morning see what looks like a little blob of mucous with a tiny little fetus in it. :cry2:skip7879":4ks802qm said:
Lucky_P
Well-known member
I am the vet on our place(wife and I are both DVMs); but I have not been in active practice for 20 years - only cows I've palpated in that time are my own and the next-door-neighbors'. Never had much experience, even when I was in active practice, doing those 'early-pregnancy' cows - you'd pretty much have to have been a vet with a large dairy repro practice to get good at that; checking salebarn cows and beef herds won't get you the 'feel' for those early ones(and there's usually a record of the breeding date to go along with it! That helps, at least when you're first getting started.).
Most of my preg-checking in practice was fall or spring herd-working stuff - it was easy to say 'bred' or 'open' on those cows that are 4 months or more along. Above 45 days, I feel pretty confident about 'em; less than 45 days...not so much.
Had two cows here calve out in the past week or so that I called 'open or too early for me to tell' when I palpated the herd last fall; they should have gone to town, but farm manager(wife) bumped them to the Fall calving group. Guess they were in the 'too early to tell' set, and will definitely go to the Fall group this time around.
Most of my preg-checking in practice was fall or spring herd-working stuff - it was easy to say 'bred' or 'open' on those cows that are 4 months or more along. Above 45 days, I feel pretty confident about 'em; less than 45 days...not so much.
Had two cows here calve out in the past week or so that I called 'open or too early for me to tell' when I palpated the herd last fall; they should have gone to town, but farm manager(wife) bumped them to the Fall calving group. Guess they were in the 'too early to tell' set, and will definitely go to the Fall group this time around.
SRBeef
Well-known member
Lucky_P":22ggfvju said:
Sounds like you have a good farm manager! ;-)
Jim
TexasBred
Well-known member
Lucky, appreciate you using the words "bumped them". Something we always did but dont' hear it mentioned by many anymore.Lucky_P":2qlxsb2j said:
vclavin
Well-known member
Our vet is usually within 2 weeks. If he calls an AI too early - it's a bull calf and on time its almost always a heifer. He gives me 2 week intervals and and we make sure bull has been out for at least 8 weeks.
Valerie
He does work at several sale barns and dairies.
Valerie
He does work at several sale barns and dairies.
Lucky_P
Well-known member
Jim - yeah, she's a pretty good one. At least, she makes me do the right thing. Maddening though that may be.
TxBred - don't know which meaning of 'bumped' you thought I was referring to, but when I said she 'bumped them' to the Fall herd - I meant that she just held them over, moving them from the Spring-calving herd to the Fall herd, despite the fact that they might have been open - not that she bumped the cows' side(the technical term for that is 'ballotement') in an effort to determine if they were pregnant or not.
Just trying to be clear on that point.
TxBred - don't know which meaning of 'bumped' you thought I was referring to, but when I said she 'bumped them' to the Fall herd - I meant that she just held them over, moving them from the Spring-calving herd to the Fall herd, despite the fact that they might have been open - not that she bumped the cows' side(the technical term for that is 'ballotement') in an effort to determine if they were pregnant or not.
Just trying to be clear on that point.
TexasBred
Well-known member
Gotcha Doc....I was referring to "bumping a calf".
pdfangus
Well-known member
early on I got in the habit of giving the vet the exact number of days that I thought the cow ought to be bred and why I thought that date
example 42 days AI service
example 74 days bull service observed
example 63 days cow in heat svc not observed but bull in field
helps the vet calibrate his arm as well to check a known breeding date.
example 42 days AI service
example 74 days bull service observed
example 63 days cow in heat svc not observed but bull in field
helps the vet calibrate his arm as well to check a known breeding date.
