Workinonit Farm
Well-known member
Gators ----- I too have always liked the looks of the 'traditional' Simmenthal.
Nice looking turkey you have there.
Nice looking turkey you have there.
Traditional Simmentals
- Thread starter trin
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WORANCH":3e1xy5ma said:TennesseeTuxedo":3e1xy5ma said:
Do you think they might have a few heifer calves to go along with the steers .
Seems like an awfully large percentage to retain. Do you hold back that many WO? I figure on 10-15% for replacements.
Dang TexasBred, I wish I had of said that! :lol2:
Great post Chippie!
Even when someone attaches her post to their answer, I do not read it. I am like a cow in an electric fence. I just chose to quit walking into it. Just by listening to the comments, It is like having two routes to travel home. One is a smooth shorter road, and the other is long, filled with pot holes.
How long will it be before do you stop taking the long road as it continues to beat your brains out?
If her purpose is to teach and no input, she needs to write a book. Start a website maybe. Just some things to consider. I am sure that a couple other's would love to have a signed copy.
How long will it be before do you stop taking the long road as it continues to beat your brains out?
If her purpose is to teach and no input, she needs to write a book. Start a website maybe. Just some things to consider. I am sure that a couple other's would love to have a signed copy.
TennesseeTuxedo":3hvn9tnx said:WORANCH":3hvn9tnx said:Do you think they might have a few heifer calves to go along with the steers .
Seems like an awfully large percentage to retain. Do you hold back that many WO? I figure on 10-15% for replacements.
No I don't keep that many . But some breeders do , If CG8 wants to keep 100% of their heifers to expand their herd more power to her .
But when you posted this you were just trying to run down her operation .
WORANCH":uxzx40p0 said:TennesseeTuxedo":uxzx40p0 said:WORANCH":uxzx40p0 said:Do you think they might have a few heifer calves to go along with the steers .
Seems like an awfully large percentage to retain. Do you hold back that many WO? I figure on 10-15% for replacements.
No I don't keep that many . But some breeders do , If CG8 wants to keep 100% of their heifers to expand their herd more power to her .
But when you posted this you were just trying to run down her operation .
You're entitled to your opinion as am I, WO.
Taurus
Well-known member
Just like you tried (and miserably failed) to run down my operation, huh? That "operation" can easily be improved and cowgirl8 will making more money than before. I meant didn't all she wants is just how much money her calves could bring at the sale barn? All she needs is change the mating game by changing current bulls to better bulls then matching cows to right bulls for better uniformity in the calves. It's not that hard. It's a simple fix for her. Many of us believed that cowgirl8 could and will improving her herd if she had followed the advice, she will feels way better in long run.WORANCH":1nvxi4cy said:
regolith
Well-known member
You're tired Taurus? Or using a translator program?
This started out as a really interesting thread. I almost wish we could have another on old style Simmentals without the derailment.
Keeping high heifer numbers is a good cover-up for a lot of issues.
Not poking at anyone really. I usually try to rear 20% for replacements but some years it's 30 - 35% (like this year). It's a good opportunity to clear out the problem cows or slower breeders, hoping that the youngsters are an improvement.
Around 80% weaning rate sounds to me like significant room for improvement. Don't know what you all usually get, 90% of cows mated the previous season sounds to me like a better target, that would be 95% in calf and allows 5% losses; is that feasible?
This started out as a really interesting thread. I almost wish we could have another on old style Simmentals without the derailment.
Keeping high heifer numbers is a good cover-up for a lot of issues.
Not poking at anyone really. I usually try to rear 20% for replacements but some years it's 30 - 35% (like this year). It's a good opportunity to clear out the problem cows or slower breeders, hoping that the youngsters are an improvement.
Around 80% weaning rate sounds to me like significant room for improvement. Don't know what you all usually get, 90% of cows mated the previous season sounds to me like a better target, that would be 95% in calf and allows 5% losses; is that feasible?
This situation, me not agreeing with him for whatever reason, reminds me of the Seinfeld episode The Sponge.....In this episode, Kramer wont wear the AIDs ribbon. He wants to participate, but a big group gangs up on him because he doesnt want to wear the AIDs ribbon.... yeah, kind of like that lol...Taurus":3o1wpq5l said:
I invite you to tour our ranch again with this video i made this spring. Here it shows all our cows, all the herds, everything......i'm thinking you dont understand and you think i have one big herd with everyone mixed up. Watch it, maybe then it will make sense.
http://youtu.be/ZWOLOILg28o?list=UUBOCH ... s4nbdMDaUA
Toad
Well-known member
Well you certainly have a colorful herd.
Kingfisher
Well-known member
I see why you have "a lot of dove.".
You ought to see it now that we've had rain in august. We still have standing water. Working hard now to mow it down. First time ever we've not been able to mow in August.Kingfisher":167cb60d said:
CG8 --sounds like you have upset their Social Applecart --I approve! :clap:
Nice operation you have going looks like --keep up the good work. That's the problem with many cattle operators --everyone's an expert.
Traditional Simmental > IMHO
The Full Blood cattle are still very much lacking in the Marbling area. If you look at the Top 1% EPD for IMF for Fleck cattle they are even behind Simbrah. Like it or not at the end of the day we are all in the beef business not the cattle business. (Simbrah have improved their Marbling scores due to using more PBSM genetics over the last several years)
No one will discount us for providing a better cut, but they will discount us for providing beef with the consistency of a re-tread. I don't know anyone that goes to the steakhouse and intentionally orders a super lean steak that gets bigger in your mouth the more you chew it (except maybe the hippies out in California, but they still sniff glue and lick toads out there). Also, everyone has to raise the kind of cattle best suited for their particular "micro-climate" -- and some operations just don't have the land base for a cow/calf operation anyway - for those folks > Wal-mart is Hiring.
I really think -- many people see their improvement depending on an increase in quantity pounds and they are searching for that super bull out there somewhere that will give them this or they believe that bigger framed cows will increase WW's, YW's and their bottom line. They never really crunch the numbers on the inevitable increase in their annual cost of production for their cow herd when doing so and are more than likely making less than if they had left it alone.
Cow families play a huge role in predictability --- long before the EPD we used these quality parameters (cow families) -- its like CG8 keeping her young BWF bull off that older 1998 cow. She has a more than proven her track record for excellence under CG8's conditions. Want more of the same? Keep a bull out of that proven dam and put him to work.
Usually quality pounds makes us more money than quantity pounds. (this is why a NY Strip costs more than a hamburger).
I know Simangus™ are in much demand these days and their market share has increased greatly especially since the drought of '12. Going to simangus is best done by using simangus bulls that have PB Simmental Dams and Angus Sires. This cross has been proven to provide the right amount of frame, milk, performance, carcass, bw, ww, yw ---- ect .... nowhere in this "equation" is there any Fleck genetics.
We had some Fleck cattle over 30 years ago and yes some improvement has been realized but not really a lot. They are not unlike the Angus Assoc really in regards to not allowing anything in their registry but full blood cattle --this is referred to as a closed population -- and in this kind of population -- there is little to no variation or improvement --over time. The only "improvement" I have seen in Angus over the years is an increase in genetic defects from their most widely used genetic base - the 036 bloodline among a handful of others.
Why simangus hold the largest market share of all the crossbred cattle > because we can run more moderately framed cows on our ranch than we can large framed cows due in most part to a decrease in annual production costs (this one factor alone > larger cattle eat more than our more moderately framed cows do) --- (this is for the social club and not you CG8)
... this means that by running more moderately framed cows (simangus or pick another crossbred here) we actually are making more $$, because a larger number of cows means more calves to sell (which is the only way to make more $$ that's in thinking with quantity pounds theory) -- but imagine a cross that has proven to be better in quality pounds even though they may have lower weaning weights -- still make us more money with fewer inputs.....
If I had the choice in breeding I would use
Angus Bulls on PBSM cows > F 1 (although since 2012, Angus Mature Weight is higher than PBSM) (MM has increased in PBAN, due to selection)
F1 x Horned Hereford Bull (Like a Chandler Hereford out of Oregon) (This would decrease MM to a more suitable level)
or just bypass Simmental all together and return to what our grandparents were doing years ago and put a HH bull on an Angus cow.
:tiphat:
Nice operation you have going looks like --keep up the good work. That's the problem with many cattle operators --everyone's an expert.
Traditional Simmental > IMHO
The Full Blood cattle are still very much lacking in the Marbling area. If you look at the Top 1% EPD for IMF for Fleck cattle they are even behind Simbrah. Like it or not at the end of the day we are all in the beef business not the cattle business. (Simbrah have improved their Marbling scores due to using more PBSM genetics over the last several years)
No one will discount us for providing a better cut, but they will discount us for providing beef with the consistency of a re-tread. I don't know anyone that goes to the steakhouse and intentionally orders a super lean steak that gets bigger in your mouth the more you chew it (except maybe the hippies out in California, but they still sniff glue and lick toads out there). Also, everyone has to raise the kind of cattle best suited for their particular "micro-climate" -- and some operations just don't have the land base for a cow/calf operation anyway - for those folks > Wal-mart is Hiring.
I really think -- many people see their improvement depending on an increase in quantity pounds and they are searching for that super bull out there somewhere that will give them this or they believe that bigger framed cows will increase WW's, YW's and their bottom line. They never really crunch the numbers on the inevitable increase in their annual cost of production for their cow herd when doing so and are more than likely making less than if they had left it alone.
Cow families play a huge role in predictability --- long before the EPD we used these quality parameters (cow families) -- its like CG8 keeping her young BWF bull off that older 1998 cow. She has a more than proven her track record for excellence under CG8's conditions. Want more of the same? Keep a bull out of that proven dam and put him to work.
Usually quality pounds makes us more money than quantity pounds. (this is why a NY Strip costs more than a hamburger).
I know Simangus™ are in much demand these days and their market share has increased greatly especially since the drought of '12. Going to simangus is best done by using simangus bulls that have PB Simmental Dams and Angus Sires. This cross has been proven to provide the right amount of frame, milk, performance, carcass, bw, ww, yw ---- ect .... nowhere in this "equation" is there any Fleck genetics.
We had some Fleck cattle over 30 years ago and yes some improvement has been realized but not really a lot. They are not unlike the Angus Assoc really in regards to not allowing anything in their registry but full blood cattle --this is referred to as a closed population -- and in this kind of population -- there is little to no variation or improvement --over time. The only "improvement" I have seen in Angus over the years is an increase in genetic defects from their most widely used genetic base - the 036 bloodline among a handful of others.
Why simangus hold the largest market share of all the crossbred cattle > because we can run more moderately framed cows on our ranch than we can large framed cows due in most part to a decrease in annual production costs (this one factor alone > larger cattle eat more than our more moderately framed cows do) --- (this is for the social club and not you CG8)
... this means that by running more moderately framed cows (simangus or pick another crossbred here) we actually are making more $$, because a larger number of cows means more calves to sell (which is the only way to make more $$ that's in thinking with quantity pounds theory) -- but imagine a cross that has proven to be better in quality pounds even though they may have lower weaning weights -- still make us more money with fewer inputs.....
If I had the choice in breeding I would use
Angus Bulls on PBSM cows > F 1 (although since 2012, Angus Mature Weight is higher than PBSM) (MM has increased in PBAN, due to selection)
F1 x Horned Hereford Bull (Like a Chandler Hereford out of Oregon) (This would decrease MM to a more suitable level)
or just bypass Simmental all together and return to what our grandparents were doing years ago and put a HH bull on an Angus cow.
:tiphat:
Taurus
Well-known member
I guess that cowgirl8 is an expert and we're all dumb hobby farmers...... :bs:RegCowman":1meld2a9 said:
Gators Rule
Well-known member
Taurus":1hr0fz29 said:
Hey, I resemble that remark! Personally, I have no problem with someone who disagrees with me....as long as they don't mind being wrong.
Taurus
Well-known member
Ditto that!Gators Rule":3i8smny2 said:Taurus":3i8smny2 said:
Hey, I resemble that remark! Personally, I have no problem with someone who disagrees with me....as long as they don't mind being wrong.
Nesikep
Well-known member
RegCowman":2vff30uw said:
A point they were making was that with all the breed associations having open books, the predictability of the breeds is going down the drain. The article was about linebreeding, and how over generations, you end up with more homozygous genes, however, by outcrossing just once, you lose vast amounts of progress you just made from years of linebreeding.
