Traditional Simmentals
- Thread starter trin
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cowgirl8":2sa3s4kg said:
Um, well, until you stop posting your mongrel bull's photos I suppose.
CP answered your question btw.
regolith
Well-known member
cowgirl8":26myt85s said:
Very ordinary practice in dairy herds here; even a few days with a different breed bull will make the transition obvious between the AI keeper calves and the later calves, during that time when it's possible for a cow to be ten days late or early calving.
Angus should give 100% polled, Hereford 100% white face. In theory.
So it's just a question of knowing your genes, so you can be certain which bull without resorting to DNA testing. It's not the breed, but the dominant marker gene, that's wanted in this situation.
regolith
Well-known member
cowgirl8":1n2dkzuv said:
In that case, cp answered your question fully several pages back and my comprehension is bad.
If you really want an answer to that question, look again at what I said about using a dominant marker gene that will distinguish from the AI bull/cow influence.
Otherwise you might as well DNA test everything for accuracy.
The original question was, how was i going to tell which bull bred which cows when i run 4 bulls in a herd. I was asking how i was going to do as a AI does it in that comment? That was not the original question, but was what he was giving me.
My question is, i have 100 cows and 4 bulls (mind you i'm suppose to keep my calf crop consistent) would i ever be able to pinpoint which bull sired heifers out of that herd. I've asked this several times when i'm told i dont keep records like big ranches do. So, i'm asking, if you have 100 cows and 4 bulls and keep heifers out of that herd, how will you know who sired who? My answer would be, run bulls you'd want to keep heifers out of and it doesnt matter which one. In my records i'd have the year the heifer was born....the next year, i'd have her a number, ear tattoo, bangs number......the next year, her first calf and sex of the calf and color....the next year, second calf, sex and color. I only note the size of the calf it i find it necessary. I take note on if births looked difficult, if she retained her afterbirth, if she hides her calf, anything i think i can use as the years go on. TB i hope your reading this so that maybe you'll remember and wont make remarks at how i dont keep records and if you made it to this point you do. If not i'll refer you to it each time you comment that...
My question is, i have 100 cows and 4 bulls (mind you i'm suppose to keep my calf crop consistent) would i ever be able to pinpoint which bull sired heifers out of that herd. I've asked this several times when i'm told i dont keep records like big ranches do. So, i'm asking, if you have 100 cows and 4 bulls and keep heifers out of that herd, how will you know who sired who? My answer would be, run bulls you'd want to keep heifers out of and it doesnt matter which one. In my records i'd have the year the heifer was born....the next year, i'd have her a number, ear tattoo, bangs number......the next year, her first calf and sex of the calf and color....the next year, second calf, sex and color. I only note the size of the calf it i find it necessary. I take note on if births looked difficult, if she retained her afterbirth, if she hides her calf, anything i think i can use as the years go on. TB i hope your reading this so that maybe you'll remember and wont make remarks at how i dont keep records and if you made it to this point you do. If not i'll refer you to it each time you comment that...
TexasBred
Well-known member
cowgirl8":2wah87z9 said:
As I said earlier "if it works for you". In a scenario like yours I think I'd try to find me 4 bulls for those 100 cows that were very similar. Not only the same breed but also very similar EPDs, body confirmation etc. The calves should be more uniform in birthweight, color, weaning weight, etc. assuming the cattle were also "uniform" to begin with. This would take you several generations of culling the old and replacing with the new and better heifers who decide to keep and culling out the heifers which simply don't measure up regardless of how pretty they are. Who bred what would not be that much of a concern as simply making sure every cow gets bred in a timely manner and delivers a healthy calf. (I am talking commercial cattle herd running with registered bulls) Beginning a program of actually removing ALL bulls from the pasture with the cattle for a period of time to ensure that they calf during a designated calving period will also you get more uniformity in your calves. It certainly wouldnt' hurt to have someone available to perform "rectal" palpation on the cattle at a designated time after you remove the bulls or at least have a cut off date for breeding and then anything thta comes in heat after that time hits the road. Have a BSE test performed on every bull every year before breeding season ! I think simple changes like this would make your job much easier, improve your farm income even more and give you that herd you're looking for.
Before I failed in the dairy business I had a statement I'd tell anyone...."walk through my cattle and if you see one you don't like I'll give her to you"...They were that good...I never had to give away a cow.....that's what you should be reaching for as well. Best wishes and best of luck to you.
That was a very informative, thoughtful, and considerate post.
M5farm
Well-known member
:nod: :nod: :nod:TennesseeTuxedo":2opqapx3 said:
Workinonit Farm
Well-known member
M5farm":1xturml6 said:
It was. It was pretty darned nice of him to do so. Let's hope it was taken in the spirit it was meant.
I, personally, have thrown in the towel.
chippie
Well-known member
Workinonit Farm":2w3vgpm4 said:
:nod:
branguscowgirl
Well-known member
X 2 :clap:TennesseeTuxedo":n7rhe6ig said:
Awesome explanation TB. I learned a lot from what you said. I AI all my cattle, so I am learning from all of you how larger, commercial operations do things.
Awesome, you've finally been listening. In fact, this week the bulls come off. Its going to be a new bull year, one because we've lost a lot of our bulls and two, we like adding new blood. The 4 angus we bought the last couple years, they'll stay for heifers and the younger cows..We'll sell our helper bulls, their job is done. I'm guessing that the one out of our fav heifer bull may stay since he's black w/f. Since we have an over abundance of grass this year, i'm considering keeping the two fluffy red bulls, putting them in a small herd themselves with a small group of cows just to see what they produce (I like experimenting, it keeps my job fun). We will keep BBjr on the terminal herd, since we do have calves out of him and they are OUTSTANDING and he produces black, black w/f even out of colorful old school sims, he gets to stay.. That leaves the bigger herds, we'll either run new registered angus or another registered breed. We'll watch and see what buyers want, this may be the year we go white face on the calves since we now have the black cows we worked hard to get.. Looks like we'll have 87 black, black w/f steers and 18 red, grey or brindle steers (we did have one red bull to get sim heifers out of who is now gone) so uniformity was pretty good this year. They are within 3 months of age from each other, since we do have a breeding season, and is the same as other big operations. And since we haul calves ourselves, we can haul a trailer load of totally matching calves to the sale. Going to watch and see if we are better to group them or sale individually at the barn. Sometimes it does work out better some times not. Be sure to go take a look at some of the steers we'll have in our trailers on the how my calves grow thread...We'll probably wait another month, the cows are getting fat despite having large calves on them, the calves are gaining great. As long as everyone is gaining, we'll be able to wait for prices to rise...Its been a great year 
"Awesome, you've finally been listening"
That's how you respond to some trying to pass useful advice along to you????
You then launch into another me, me, me post.
Lady, you are indeed a piece of work.
That's how you respond to some trying to pass useful advice along to you????
You then launch into another me, me, me post.
Lady, you are indeed a piece of work.
Again I'm not here for advice. 35 years experience, a vet we like and can call any time, a family member who specializes in feed and many friends in our area we trust and respect. I don't need unsolicited advice from a person on.a pwer trip. He gave good advice for a beginner. Maybe someone who needs advice will see it if he hasn't already run them off.
Honestly I don't understand this "you must take advice!". Mentality. It's kind of weird. If you must give it do and then move on.
Honestly I don't understand this "you must take advice!". Mentality. It's kind of weird. If you must give it do and then move on.
TexasBred
Well-known member
Cowgirl I've never had a "large operation". Even when dairying my herd though somewhat large for my area would not have been considered a large operation. Regardless of size the same principles will apply. Start with what you have and strive to improve the operation with every decision you make.branguscowgirl":2pre40j1 said:
chippie
Well-known member
First off, my apologies to the original poster about going off the topic (Traditional Simmentals)
cowgirl8
No one ever said that you "must take advice" here.
What you don't seem to realize is that a person never stops learning, and very often another person's advice can give a person a fresh perspective about something.
None of the people that you have alienated have ever claimed to know everything.
Your delivery when writing really gives the impression that you are better than everyone else and we should accept it. Your comments about a person only owning a few head were something else. For some people, quality means more than quantity, especially if they have a specific goal in mind for their operation.
As I have said in the past, it is your nickel and your cattle. BUT if you don't want comments other than "wow what a pretty (fill in the blank)" don't post photos, or when you do, state a disclaimer that you do not want any critiques or unflattering comments about your cattle.
The majority of the members here are men, and they don't do "the pretty cow" type of thing like woman will do because they don't want to hurt feelings. Men will call it like they see it.
I am on several Cake boards, and bakers post pics of wrecks not understanding why their customer is upset. The members always say, it isn't your fault, the cake is beautiful, your customers doesn't know what they are talking about etc... With remarks like that, the baker will never improve his or her skills.
I will also say that some people need to let it go. You can't change a leopard's spots.
Stick a fork in me. I am done.
cowgirl8
No one ever said that you "must take advice" here.
What you don't seem to realize is that a person never stops learning, and very often another person's advice can give a person a fresh perspective about something.
None of the people that you have alienated have ever claimed to know everything.
Your delivery when writing really gives the impression that you are better than everyone else and we should accept it. Your comments about a person only owning a few head were something else. For some people, quality means more than quantity, especially if they have a specific goal in mind for their operation.
As I have said in the past, it is your nickel and your cattle. BUT if you don't want comments other than "wow what a pretty (fill in the blank)" don't post photos, or when you do, state a disclaimer that you do not want any critiques or unflattering comments about your cattle.
The majority of the members here are men, and they don't do "the pretty cow" type of thing like woman will do because they don't want to hurt feelings. Men will call it like they see it.
I am on several Cake boards, and bakers post pics of wrecks not understanding why their customer is upset. The members always say, it isn't your fault, the cake is beautiful, your customers doesn't know what they are talking about etc... With remarks like that, the baker will never improve his or her skills.
I will also say that some people need to let it go. You can't change a leopard's spots.
Stick a fork in me. I am done.
