to $B or not to $B - that is the question

[sizmic]

SAF Connection is one heck of a good bull!

Sizmic

 

[KMacGinley]

Go do ten breedings with the eggs from the same cow, and the semen from the same bull, and most likely they will all be different. They may all be good cattle, or they may not, that's just how it works.

Apples and Oranges... Apples and Oranges...

Some people still have the crazy idea that ExT is a pretty good bull. Once you get past the dispositions. I guess it depends on what you call good.

Come on now, had he not been a relatively good bull he wouldn't have sold the semen he did. I have never had a disposition problem with his progeny and I have tried to concentrate his genetics to some degree. But he is too high for me now but I am sure glad I retained some of his daughters.

If you are saying come on now to me, TSR, I was being sarcastic. I never used him because of the dispositions, life is too short to put up with that stuff. But he does have impressive numbers if you think that epds mean anything. He also sired beautiful daughters with great udders and a plethora of good sons.
That $250,000 clone is going to be a bargain, I would just guess, if there is any money left in this country when they get the financial mess straightened out.

 

[Brandonm22]

Well, go compare his EPD to these bulls, these are just four that I like, for the most part they all blow him out of the water in the EPD department. Keep in mind I am a rookie though.

GAR Predestined #13395344
B/R Ambush 28 #14188956
B/R New Design 323-8212 #13043866
B/R Future Direction 4268 #14675477

I like many others too, but these just stood out to me as being some of the better all around EPD's. Phenotype on these bulls are excellent also. :nod:

Those are not bad bulls but if we are talking about BALANCED EPDs, EXT is still pretty competitive. B/R Ambush 28 has $7 less EN than EXT, more birth weight, just as bad a SC number, and I think a +107 yearling wt EPD is going too lead to problems with his daughters in the cow herd. GAR Predestined has an even higher birth weight EPD, a lower $EN, and that +100 YW EPD is a next generation problem waiting too happen. I have never actually SEEN either bull, but I like EXT's glamour picture better than Predestined's (for whatever that is or is not worth)
http://www.cattle.com/semen/bulls/G+A+R ... ined+.aspx
http://www.cattle.com/semen/bulls/N+Bar ... +EXT+.aspx
EXT beats B/R Future Direction 4268 by $17++ in $EN but EXT beats him by $5 a calf in $W (how does that happen?) and then there is the whole CA Future Direction problem in the pedigree. B/R New Design 323-8212 has very similar numbers to EXT better $EN, less weaning weight, less milk, and a lot less accuracy to those numbers ; BUT (and I know this is ticky tack) I don't like those extremely low birth weight heifer specialists. Negative 1.2 birth???? in Angus??? seems a little bit extreme. Good heifers ought to be able too handle an EXT calf (+2 bwt). I am not willing necessarily to say that EXT is a superior bull to any of these other bulls; but my point is that an informed breeder (depending on what his or her goals are) CAN definitely make that argument.

 

[RD-Sam]

4268 has already been tested and is not a carrier, if that is what you are refering to? Others have said he sires calves with a better rear than CA FD if that is what you are refering to?

You are picking on one or two things in the pedigree, like the $EN, many don't even give that a second thought, but I do, just like to keep them within reason. I could pick out a half a dozen things that each of those bulls do better than EXT, but I was looking at the whole package. What is wrong with a low birth weight as long as the calf grows? YW on 323-8212 is about the same as EXT. Would it not be wise to be cautious with heifers and use a low birth weight bull as long as the growth is there?

On the $EN, if I remember right, high milk will hurt it, larger frame will hurt it, higher weening weight will hurt it, and those are the things that many want. If you look at a bull like 28 and do the math, you get a huge gain in many areas with minimal loss in cost to keep, and look at the carcass on those bulls compared to EXT, that's where the bottom line is.

 

[Brandonm22]

Yes those other sires DO have better carcass EPDs than EXT; but unless you retain ownership and sell on a grid or market seedstock to people who do the bottom line isn't there. The rest of us live and die on the cost side and weaning weight. I also don't put much weight to the actual dollar amounts with the $EN number. It certainly cost more money to keep a cow this year than it did two years ago or in the year the research was done those dollar values were calculated. While not a perfect number It is more a measure of which bull's daughters are more likely to stay in the herd in real world conditions. Certainly some folks don't consider it at all when they plan their matings. All I am pointing out is that that is an EXT positive, whether we breed "by the numbers" or go out and look at the quality easy keeping EXT daughters out there in the real world. I don't know about you but I am getting Angus emails every third day from people claiming their cattle have no 1680 in the pedigree. I don't know how long this is going to continue; but if I were going to buy semen today I would probably stay completely away from those pedigrees.