to $B or not to $B - that is the question

[Brandonm22]

Yup, wastes 150k to save 100k, makes perfect sense to me.

It is kind of like people who keep a mortgage on their house just so they can deduct the interest. It don't make sense to me either but people do these kinds of things all the time. Of course if Obama raises the effective top rate to 50-58% or more a lot of folks might be looking for $250,000 heifers.

 

[Angus Cowman]

Yup, wastes 150k to save 100k, makes perfect sense to me.

It is kind of like people who keep a mortgage on their house just so they can deduct the interest. It don't make sense to me either but people do these kinds of things all the time. Of course if Obama raises the effective top rate to 50-58% or more a lot of folks might be looking for $250,000 heifers.

I see keeping the mortage on a house because if you have a 100K mortage and deduct the interest you have gained that money and if you have the 100k invested to pay it off you are getiing the gain on your investment also and the deduction more than covers your gain on the investment
Had a financial consultant explain several issues like this when I started my first business he said even if you have the money, from a business standpoint you need to finance the equipment and keep your money assets for back up I also talked to my accountant and she ran the #s and it did work out to where I got substantially larger tax breaks

 

[RD-Sam]

I have never been burdoned with really really high income, so I can't pretend to get in those folks heads; but some folks in that situation would rather buy a big flashy tractor, HUMMER, dozer, race horse, jet, or quarter of a million $$$ heifer than pay a large tax check to the government. That heifer depreciated out over five years (on a normal schedule of depreciation) shields $50,000 a year in income from taxes. If he is in the 35% federal bracket and in Alabama add 5% state income tax, that purchase means he pays $20,000 a year less in taxes so he gets a $100,000 of that back in decreased tax burden alone.

Yup, wastes 150k to save 100k, makes perfect sense to me.

Doesn't sound like a smart CPA! :lol2:

 

[Brandonm22]

I see keeping the mortage on a house because if you have a 100K mortage and deduct the interest you have gained that money and if you have the 100k invested to pay it off you are getiing the gain on your investment also and the deduction more than covers your gain on the investment

Nonsense. You are giving $10,000 in interest to a bank in order to avoid giving the govt $2800 (assuming you are in the 28% tax bracket). How does giving away a net $7200 too Citibank a year make YOU rich??

 

[BeefmasterB]

I just finished up being audited. I can promise you that you had better be able to prove you intend on making a profit with cattle.
The auditor said that weekend farmers are their number one red flag.

Well then, they certainly won't have any problem with my outstanding operation!! :lol: :help:

 

[Angus Cowman]

I see keeping the mortage on a house because if you have a 100K mortage and deduct the interest you have gained that money and if you have the 100k invested to pay it off you are getiing the gain on your investment also and the deduction more than covers your gain on the investment

Nonsense. You are giving $10,000 in interest to a bank in order to avoid giving the govt $2800 (assuming you are in the 28% tax bracket). How does giving away a net $7200 too Citibank a year make YOU rich??

Well for one thing I don't pay 10k interest on 100k loan only 6.4% and my 100k investment is returning at a minimum of 4.5% so the deduction on interest off sets the gain on my investment and therefore keeping my assets liguid because I can remove the 100k where If I pay my loan off I would have the real property but no deductions
I am not knowledgeable enought to get into details but like I said my accountant and a financial advisor have both told me and showed me on paper how I am better off putting my money in the bank and keeping my loans active
Also have done business and been freinds with some very wealthy people very successful businessmen and they all will tell you to work off someone elses money (banks) not your own

 

[Brandonm22]

I see keeping the mortage on a house because if you have a 100K mortage and deduct the interest you have gained that money and if you have the 100k invested to pay it off you are getiing the gain on your investment also and the deduction more than covers your gain on the investment

Nonsense. You are giving $10,000 in interest to a bank in order to avoid giving the govt $2800 (assuming you are in the 28% tax bracket). How does giving away a net $7200 too Citibank a year make YOU rich??

Well for one thing I don't pay 10k interest on 100k loan only 6.4% and my 100k investment is returning at a minimum of 4.5% so the deduction on interest off sets the gain on my investment and therefore keeping my assets liguid because I can remove the 100k where If I pay my loan off I would have the real property but no deductions
I am not knowledgeable enought to get into details but like I said my accountant and a financial advisor have both told me and showed me on paper how I am better off putting my money in the bank and keeping my loans active
Also have done business and been freinds with some very wealthy people very successful businessmen and they all will tell you to work off someone elses money (banks) not your own

IF you are making 4.5% off of your investments right now congratulations. SOME people had theirs in Lehman Bros (or Citibank) and now their $100,000 is gone (or much diminished) and they still owe $100,000 on the roof over their heads. Most people will park their money some place, let it sit there for a while, and after a few years raid it to buy a truck, pay for their grandkids college, a cruise, or just the daily costs of life and after a few years they don't have a $100,000, they still owe a $100,000 and are paying $10,000 (or $6400 and getting a smaller deduction too brag about) a year out of their pocket in interest to keep from getting thrown out in the street.

There are a lot of very very rich, very very successful people who are getting their butts kicked right now because they leveraged everything they had instead of creating a viable balance sheet and now are losing it all. Do what you like; but I got no intention of carrying a mortgage again, even if I do get a tax deduction for it.

 

[KMacGinley]

She is a clone of EXT's Dam, ever heard of him???? They will make that money back in spades if they get any eggs out of her.

 

[RD-Sam]

There are way better sires than him out there now, looks to me like somebody made a big booboo!

 

[Angus Cowman]

Well for one thing I don't pay 10k interest on 100k loan only 6.4% and my 100k investment is returning at a minimum of 4.5% so the deduction on interest off sets the gain on my investment and therefore keeping my assets liguid because I can remove the 100k where If I pay my loan off I would have the real property but no deductions

I am not knowledgeable enought to get into details but like I said my accountant and a financial advisor have both told me and showed me on paper how I am better off putting my money in the bank and keeping my loans active
Also have done business and been freinds with some very wealthy people very successful businessmen and they all will tell you to work off someone elses money (banks) not your own[/quote]


IF you are making 4.5% off of your investments right now congratulations. SOME people had theirs in Lehman Bros (or Citibank) and now their $100,000 is gone (or much diminished) and they still owe $100,000 on the roof over their heads. Most people will park their money some place, let it sit there for a while, and after a few years raid it to buy a truck, pay for their grandkids college, a cruise, or just the daily costs of life and after a few years they don't have a $100,000, they still owe a $100,000 and are paying $10,000 (or $6400 and getting a smaller deduction too brag about) a year out of their pocket in interest to keep from getting thrown out in the street.

There are a lot of very very rich, very very successful people who are getting their butts kicked right now because they leveraged everything they had instead of creating a viable balance sheet and now are losing it all. Do what you like; but I got no intention of carrying a mortgage again, even if I do get a tax deduction for it.[/quote]

I agree with your point on them not managing properly but it is kinda like the cattle bus if you manage it you can make it work if you don't it will be gone
that is also why over 50% of small businesses fail because of mismanagement

 

[KMacGinley]

There are way better sires than him out there now, looks to me like somebody made a big booboo!

This from the guy who said that she didn't get the same genes???

 

[RD-Sam]

Go do ten breedings with the eggs from the same cow, and the semen from the same bull, and most likely they will all be different. They may all be good cattle, or they may not, that's just how it works.

 

[sizmic]

Clone or not, you may get the same genetics but you are not getting the same animal! There is a certain amount genetic material that is destroyed in the cloning process, as I understand it, so it cannot be the same animal. Maybe I'm wrong.

Sizmic

 

[whitecow]

No genetic material is destroyed in the cloning process. The chromosomal DNA of the founder animal and the clone are identical.

 

[KMacGinley]

Go do ten breedings with the eggs from the same cow, and the semen from the same bull, and most likely they will all be different. They may all be good cattle, or they may not, that's just how it works.

Apples and Oranges... Apples and Oranges...

Some people still have the crazy idea that ExT is a pretty good bull. Once you get past the dispositions. I guess it depends on what you call good.

 

[TSR]

Go do ten breedings with the eggs from the same cow, and the semen from the same bull, and most likely they will all be different. They may all be good cattle, or they may not, that's just how it works.

Apples and Oranges... Apples and Oranges...

Some people still have the crazy idea that ExT is a pretty good bull. Once you get past the dispositions. I guess it depends on what you call good.

Come on now, had he not been a relatively good bull he wouldn't have sold the semen he did. I have never had a disposition problem with his progeny and I have tried to concentrate his genetics to some degree. But he is too high for me now but I am sure glad I retained some of his daughters.

 

[RD-Sam]

Go do ten breedings with the eggs from the same cow, and the semen from the same bull, and most likely they will all be different. They may all be good cattle, or they may not, that's just how it works.

Apples and Oranges... Apples and Oranges...

Some people still have the crazy idea that ExT is a pretty good bull. Once you get past the dispositions. I guess it depends on what you call good.

I never said he wasn't a good bull, I just think there are better bulls available now. Why go backwards, unless there is a problem and you want to start over with that bull? I have heard about disposition problems out of his offspring, in fact when I first got started somebody told me to avoid anything with EXT in the line.

 

[Brandonm22]

Go do ten breedings with the eggs from the same cow, and the semen from the same bull, and most likely they will all be different. They may all be good cattle, or they may not, that's just how it works.

Apples and Oranges... Apples and Oranges...

Some people still have the crazy idea that ExT is a pretty good bull. Once you get past the dispositions. I guess it depends on what you call good.

I never said he wasn't a good bull, I just think there are better bulls available now. Why go backwards, unless there is a problem and you want to start over with that bull? I have heard about disposition problems out of his offspring, in fact when I first got started somebody told me to avoid anything with EXT in the line.

I don't know. I just punched in EXT's EPDs for birth, weaning, yearling, scrotal (an EXT weakness), Milk, Marbling, and REA into ABS's Angus bull search and I got back 32 ABS bulls that equaled or exceeded EXT for all those traits. THEN I took that list and went one by one comparing their $EN number to EXT's gaudy +10.09 (ABS won't let me search for that trait) and they don't have a single bull that matches that standard. S A F Connection came very close with a +9.5 $EN. For BALANCED performance, carcass, calving ease, and real world efficiency EXT is still very much an elite sire.

 

[RD-Sam]

Well, go compare his EPD to these bulls, these are just four that I like, for the most part they all blow him out of the water in the EPD department. Keep in mind I am a rookie though.

GAR Predestined #13395344
B/R Ambush 28 #14188956
B/R New Design 323-8212 #13043866
B/R Future Direction 4268 #14675477

I like many others too, but these just stood out to me as being some of the better all around EPD's. Phenotype on these bulls are excellent also. :nod:

 

[krenwic]

Breeding by the numbers...good luck

By the way, Predestined and 28's full sibs never brought anywhere close to what the EXT clone fetched. I guess these guys were wrong too.