The date that lives in infamy is here again.

[greybeard]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nati ... g/3899443/

72 years ago today, the mother of all cowardly attacks.

 

[dun]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/12/06/pearl-harbor-memories-fading/3899443/

72 years ago today, the mother of all cowardly attacks.

We originally were scheduled to get married on the 7th but the judge refused, said one big disater was enough for one day

 

[inyati13]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/12/06/pearl-harbor-memories-fading/3899443/

72 years ago today, the mother of all cowardly attacks.

We originally were scheduled to get married on the 7th but the judge refused, said one big disater was enough for one day

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :clap: :clap: :tiphat:

 

[inyati13]

Right after Pearl my dad went down and signed up for the service. My grandmother heard that her baby (Bobbie, youngest of her 9 living children) had gone to enlist. She ordered Joe, dad's brother 3 years his senior, to go stop him. They came back. They told Grandma they both had enlisted. Here they are Joe 91, dad 88:

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Great picture Ron!

 

[Fire Sweep Ranch]

Longevity runs deep in your family!!!

 

[Bigfoot]

I have already had my children watch his speech on youtube this morning. May we never forget.

 

[TexasBred]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/12/06/pearl-harbor-memories-fading/3899443/

72 years ago today, the mother of all cowardly attacks.

From the Japanese view, just one small part of a much more extensive plan. Today "our" leaders always try to give the enemy about 6 months notice before any "surprise" attack.

 

[Nesikep]

I don't think that cowardly is the right word.. maybe brazen?... and I am fairly certain it was exactly as much of a disaster as the government hoped it was going to be

 

[inyati13]

GB, I think Nes makes a good point. The word cowardly is used but as an act of war I think brazen does fit better!

 

[jedstivers]

I don't think that cowardly is the right word.. maybe brazen?... and I am fairly certain it was exactly as much of a disaster as the government hoped it was going to be

Which gov? Japan or America? Think nether told all they knew. One thing for sure, the Japs not only woke a sleeping giant they really pi$$ed him off.

 

[greybeard]

At that time, engaging in hostilities without a warning or declaration of war was virtually unheard of in the modern era--it would have been seen as a dishonorable act, and an act of cowardice.
Negotiations were ongoing between ambassador Hull and the Japanese envoy in Washington right up to the minute of the attack.

In the other 2 most previous wars leading up to WW2, (Spanish American War and WW1) ultimatums were issued, and a declaration of war by one or both sides was expected and happened weeks in advanc (even tho there was never any real doubt that the US and Spain were going to war) . The USS Maine blew up in Havana harbor in mid Feb 1898. The riots in Havana took place a week later. President McKinley didn't ask congress for authority to send troops to Cuba until 2 months later on Apr 11. US sent Spain an ultimatum regarding Cuba on April 21. Spain declared war on April 23. US declared war shortly thereafter. Even then, the first battle didn't take place until May 1 in Manila.

WW1 was precipitated by the assaination of Archduke Ferdinand on June 28 1914, everyone was fairly sure war was coming when negotations broke down and ultimatums were refused.

On 28 June 1914, Gavrilo Princip, a Bosnian Serb student and member of Young Bosnia, assassinated the heir to the Austro-Hungarian throne, Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria, in Sarajevo, Bosnia.[28] This began a month of diplomatic manoeuvring between Austria-Hungary, Germany, Russia, France, and Britain called the July Crisis. Believing correctly that Serbian officials (especially the officers of the Black Hand) were involved in the plot, and wanting to finally end Serbian interference in Bosnia,[29] Austria-Hungary delivered to Serbia the July Ultimatum, a series of ten demands intentionally made unacceptable, intending to provoke a war with Serbia.[30] When Serbia agreed to only eight of the ten demands, Austria-Hungary declared war on 28 July 1914. Strachan argues, "Whether an equivocal and early response by Serbia would have made any difference to Austria-Hungary's behaviour must be doubtful. Franz Ferdinand was not the sort of personality who commanded popularity, and his demise did not cast the empire into deepest mourning".[31]

The Russian Empire, unwilling to allow Austria-Hungary to eliminate its influence in the Balkans, and in support of its longtime Serb protégé, ordered a partial mobilisation one day later.[22] Germany mobilised on 30 July. Germany's war plan, the Schlieffen Plan, relied on a quick, massive invasion of France to eliminate the threat on the West, before turning east against Russia. Simultaneously with its mobilisation against Russia, therefore, the German government issued demands that France remain neutral. The French cabinet resisted military pressure to commence immediate mobilisation, and ordered its troops to withdraw 10 km (6 mi) from the border to avoid any incident. France only mobilised on the evening of 2 August, when Germany invaded Belgium and attacked French troops. Germany declared war on Russia on the same day.[32] Britain declared war on Germany on 4 August 1914, following an "unsatisfactory reply" to the British ultimatum that Belgium must be kept neutral.[33]

Even the War of 1812, had a pause between the day war was declared and hostilities began. US declared war on Britain June 18th 1812 and the first hostilities didn't take place until July 12, well after both Britain and Canada had received word of the declaration of war. That, was just the way things were done in those days and would have been expected to be done again, right up until the bombs started falling on Pearl Harbor. No respected nation would attack without warning-a sucker punch, especially delivered in a way that civilian casualties would be occur was simply deemed to be the weapon of a coward.

The sudden and unprovoked attack on Pearl Harbor was totally unexpected by most politicans in the US. There had been no hostilities, no "USS Maine" type incident (not that the Maine was really blown up by the Spanish anyway) or aggression by either side against each other before hand . It was a "sneak attack" --what today would be hailed as terrorism. It's intent was to both cripple the US in the Pacific and to shock the American people into seeking a peaceful way out of full blown war with Japan.

This of course happened before I was born, but I can well remember my parents and uncles describing it in exactly that term--cowardice. It is also why FDR fittingly described it as a date of infamy.

 

[Ouachita]

At that time, engaging in hostilities without a warning or declaration of war was virtually unheard of in the modern era--it would have been seen as a dishonorable act, and an act of cowardice.
Negotiations were ongoing between ambassador Hull and the Japanese envoy in Washington right up to the minute of the attack.

In the other 2 most previous wars leading up to WW2, (Spanish American War and WW1) ultimatums were issued, and a declaration of war by one or both sides was expected and happened weeks in advanc (even tho there was never any real doubt that the US and Spain were going to war) . The USS Maine blew up in Havana harbor in mid Feb 1898. The riots in Havana took place a week later. President McKinley didn't ask congress for authority to send troops to Cuba until 2 months later on Apr 11. US sent Spain an ultimatum regarding Cuba on April 21. Spain declared war on April 23. US declared war shortly thereafter. Even then, the first battle didn't take place until May 1 in Manila.

WW1 was precipitated by the assaination of Archduke Ferdinand on June 28 1914, everyone was fairly sure war was coming when negotations broke down and ultimatums were refused.

On 28 June 1914, Gavrilo Princip, a Bosnian Serb student and member of Young Bosnia, assassinated the heir to the Austro-Hungarian throne, Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria, in Sarajevo, Bosnia.[28] This began a month of diplomatic manoeuvring between Austria-Hungary, Germany, Russia, France, and Britain called the July Crisis. Believing correctly that Serbian officials (especially the officers of the Black Hand) were involved in the plot, and wanting to finally end Serbian interference in Bosnia,[29] Austria-Hungary delivered to Serbia the July Ultimatum, a series of ten demands intentionally made unacceptable, intending to provoke a war with Serbia.[30] When Serbia agreed to only eight of the ten demands, Austria-Hungary declared war on 28 July 1914. Strachan argues, "Whether an equivocal and early response by Serbia would have made any difference to Austria-Hungary's behaviour must be doubtful. Franz Ferdinand was not the sort of personality who commanded popularity, and his demise did not cast the empire into deepest mourning".[31]

The Russian Empire, unwilling to allow Austria-Hungary to eliminate its influence in the Balkans, and in support of its longtime Serb protégé, ordered a partial mobilisation one day later.[22] Germany mobilised on 30 July. Germany's war plan, the Schlieffen Plan, relied on a quick, massive invasion of France to eliminate the threat on the West, before turning east against Russia. Simultaneously with its mobilisation against Russia, therefore, the German government issued demands that France remain neutral. The French cabinet resisted military pressure to commence immediate mobilisation, and ordered its troops to withdraw 10 km (6 mi) from the border to avoid any incident. France only mobilised on the evening of 2 August, when Germany invaded Belgium and attacked French troops. Germany declared war on Russia on the same day.[32] Britain declared war on Germany on 4 August 1914, following an "unsatisfactory reply" to the British ultimatum that Belgium must be kept neutral.[33]

Even the War of 1812, had a pause between the day war was declared and hostilities began. US declared war on Britain June 18th 1812 and the first hostilities didn't take place until July 12, well after both Britain and Canada had received word of the declaration of war. That, was just the way things were done in those days and would have been expected to be done again, right up until the bombs started falling on Pearl Harbor. No respected nation would attack without warning-a sucker punch, especially delivered in a way that civilian casualties would be occur was simply deemed to be the weapon of a coward.

The sudden and unprovoked attack on Pearl Harbor was totally unexpected by most politicans in the US. There had been no hostilities, no "USS Maine" type incident (not that the Maine was really blown up by the Spanish anyway) or aggression by either side against each other before hand . It was a "sneak attack" --what today would be hailed as terrorism. It's intent was to both cripple the US in the Pacific and to shock the American people into seeking a peaceful way out of full blown war with Japan.

This of course happened before I was born, but I can well remember my parents and uncles describing it in exactly that term--cowardice. It is also why FDR fittingly described it as a date of infamy.

Thank you for the way you have described the "mindset of the times". We homeschool, and have been struggling a bit with how to convey to our children the mental state and the emotional state of our people at that time. Thanks again GB, you don't realize how spot on your post is for a school history lesson right now. This helps. Sometimes kids need to hear things from people other than parents to be able to digest the message we are trying to relay to them. They will read this first thing in the morning. It's a home run, and will be the catalyst to continue with the lesson.

 

[Ryder]

A sneak attack-certainly.
Cowardly? I don't think the Japanese were cowards. They were of a different culture.

People refer to these terrorist suicide bombers as cowards. I don't think they are. How could a coward sacrifice his own life like they do?
I think it can be foolish and dangerous to label people cowards just because it is an emotional derogatory term.

 

[inyati13]

Ryder's Quote, "I think it can be foolish and dangerous to label people cowards just because it is an emotional derogatory term."

GB, excellent job documenting your message and your argument is persuasive. What I take from your message, is that Japan dishonored the protocols of the initiation of war for that time period.

What is interesting is that the attack on Pearl Harbor can be called cowardly, because it was carried out without a state of War. On the other hand, if War had been declared, it is entirely appropriate to follow a strategy of unannounced and surprise attacks. Such as the bombing of strategic targets in every war beginning with WWI. In modern day actions like Afghanistan and Iraq, the use of drones falls into that category. Of course the mother of all aerial bombings was the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki Japan in 1945 killing approximately 300,000 civilians including women and children. Even though conducted in a declared state of war, it would have been impossible to prepare for.

Men died. A country was shocked. It spurred my dad and Uncle to enlist. Uncle Ben Becker landed on Omaha Beach and had his right gluteus maximus shot off. He survived it and lived the rest of his life with a disability, only to lose his eldest son, Johnny Becker in Vietnam. On my mothers side, Emerson William Mitchell was in the wave of Allies crossing the Pacific for an invasion of Japan when Little Boy and Fat Boy were dropped.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Of course had a state of war been declared I certainly hope we would not have been so foolish as to have had so many ships in harbor at the same time and place.

 

[Caustic Burno]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/12/06/pearl-harbor-memories-fading/3899443/

72 years ago today, the mother of all cowardly attacks.

Had an uncle on the USS Nevada the morning of the attack luckily he was on shore leave that day.
After the war broke out Uncle served in marines made the beach landings Guadalcanal, Iwo Jima and Okinawa.
Have heard him say Iwo was heII and Okinawa was where heII went we had over 25,000 causalities on Iwo and 40,000 on Okinawa.
Dad was in the Atlantic with a battle group of sub hunters assigned to the carrier group USS Guadalcanal .
Had an uncle in North Africa and Italy as well as the one at Pearl was at the battle of Coral Sea and the Great Marianas Turkey Shoot I can't remember the ship he was assigned to after the Nevada.

 

[jedstivers]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/12/06/pearl-harbor-memories-fading/3899443/

72 years ago today, the mother of all cowardly attacks.

Had an uncle on the USS Nevada the morning of the attack luckily he was on shore leave that day.
After the war broke out Uncle served in marines made the beach landings Guadalcanal, Iwo Jima and Okinawa.
Have heard him say Iwo was heII and Okinawa was where heII went we had over 25,000 causalities on Iwo and 40,000 on Okinawa.
Dad was in the Atlantic with a battle group of sub hunters assigned to the carrier group USS Guadalcanal .
Had an uncle in North Africa and Italy as well as the one at Pearl was at the battle of Coral Sea and the Great Marianas Turkey Shoot I can't remember the ship he was assigned to after the Nevada.

My Grandmothers first husband was a Navy Medic on Iwo, he was killed there.
My Granddaddy was in N. Africa.
Had a uncle (Granddaddy's brother), ended up in a foxhole two miles behind German lines. His buddy with him went crazy and sliced him open. He had to kill his buddy then make it out holding his gutes in his hands without getting cought.
Those were some tough men.

 

[Caustic Burno]

At that time, engaging in hostilities without a warning or declaration of war was virtually unheard of in the modern era--it would have been seen as a dishonorable act, and an act of cowardice.
Negotiations were ongoing between ambassador Hull and the Japanese envoy in Washington right up to the minute of the attack.

In the other 2 most previous wars leading up to WW2, (Spanish American War and WW1) ultimatums were issued, and a declaration of war by one or both sides was expected and happened weeks in advanc (even tho there was never any real doubt that the US and Spain were going to war) . The USS Maine blew up in Havana harbor in mid Feb 1898. The riots in Havana took place a week later. President McKinley didn't ask congress for authority to send troops to Cuba until 2 months later on Apr 11. US sent Spain an ultimatum regarding Cuba on April 21. Spain declared war on April 23. US declared war shortly thereafter. Even then, the first battle didn't take place until May 1 in Manila.

WW1 was precipitated by the assaination of Archduke Ferdinand on June 28 1914, everyone was fairly sure war was coming when negotations broke down and ultimatums were refused.

On 28 June 1914, Gavrilo Princip, a Bosnian Serb student and member of Young Bosnia, assassinated the heir to the Austro-Hungarian throne, Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria, in Sarajevo, Bosnia.[28] This began a month of diplomatic manoeuvring between Austria-Hungary, Germany, Russia, France, and Britain called the July Crisis. Believing correctly that Serbian officials (especially the officers of the Black Hand) were involved in the plot, and wanting to finally end Serbian interference in Bosnia,[29] Austria-Hungary delivered to Serbia the July Ultimatum, a series of ten demands intentionally made unacceptable, intending to provoke a war with Serbia.[30] When Serbia agreed to only eight of the ten demands, Austria-Hungary declared war on 28 July 1914. Strachan argues, "Whether an equivocal and early response by Serbia would have made any difference to Austria-Hungary's behaviour must be doubtful. Franz Ferdinand was not the sort of personality who commanded popularity, and his demise did not cast the empire into deepest mourning".[31]

The Russian Empire, unwilling to allow Austria-Hungary to eliminate its influence in the Balkans, and in support of its longtime Serb protégé, ordered a partial mobilisation one day later.[22] Germany mobilised on 30 July. Germany's war plan, the Schlieffen Plan, relied on a quick, massive invasion of France to eliminate the threat on the West, before turning east against Russia. Simultaneously with its mobilisation against Russia, therefore, the German government issued demands that France remain neutral. The French cabinet resisted military pressure to commence immediate mobilisation, and ordered its troops to withdraw 10 km (6 mi) from the border to avoid any incident. France only mobilised on the evening of 2 August, when Germany invaded Belgium and attacked French troops. Germany declared war on Russia on the same day.[32] Britain declared war on Germany on 4 August 1914, following an "unsatisfactory reply" to the British ultimatum that Belgium must be kept neutral.[33]

Even the War of 1812, had a pause between the day war was declared and hostilities began. US declared war on Britain June 18th 1812 and the first hostilities didn't take place until July 12, well after both Britain and Canada had received word of the declaration of war. That, was just the way things were done in those days and would have been expected to be done again, right up until the bombs started falling on Pearl Harbor. No respected nation would attack without warning-a sucker punch, especially delivered in a way that civilian casualties would be occur was simply deemed to be the weapon of a coward.

The sudden and unprovoked attack on Pearl Harbor was totally unexpected by most politicans in the US. There had been no hostilities, no "USS Maine" type incident (not that the Maine was really blown up by the Spanish anyway) or aggression by either side against each other before hand . It was a "sneak attack" --what today would be hailed as terrorism. It's intent was to both cripple the US in the Pacific and to shock the American people into seeking a peaceful way out of full blown war with Japan.

This of course happened before I was born, but I can well remember my parents and uncles describing it in exactly that term--cowardice. It is also why FDR fittingly described it as a date of infamy.

Even if Japan had declared war we were no where close to being prepared for an enemy like the Japanese.
Most of our navy was WWI relics of battleships made before 1900 or shortly after we were in no way prepared to fight an island campaign.
The Americans had been told they were little weak with bad eye sight. In the news reels before the war they portrayed the Jap as an inferior human being.
I remember the cowardice statements well a lot of this came from the metal drives.
Americans were collecting scrap metal that was being sold to Japan to build weapons to kill Americans. We could not even envision an enemy of such brutality that practiced cannibalism as the Japanese troop was to live off the land and never surrender. Japanese officers beheaded 10 of thousands of prisoners as a contest published in Japanese papers.
The Jap soldier murdered over 30 million in WWII the Jap made Hitler look like a choir boy. There was an Asian Holocaust as well as one in Europe it is just not talked about.

 

[Caustic Burno]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/12/06/pearl-harbor-memories-fading/3899443/

72 years ago today, the mother of all cowardly attacks.

Had an uncle on the USS Nevada the morning of the attack luckily he was on shore leave that day.
After the war broke out Uncle served in marines made the beach landings Guadalcanal, Iwo Jima and Okinawa.
Have heard him say Iwo was heII and Okinawa was where heII went we had over 25,000 causalities on Iwo and 40,000 on Okinawa.
Dad was in the Atlantic with a battle group of sub hunters assigned to the carrier group USS Guadalcanal .
Had an uncle in North Africa and Italy as well as the one at Pearl was at the battle of Coral Sea and the Great Marianas Turkey Shoot I can't remember the ship he was assigned to after the Nevada.

My Grandmothers first husband was a Navy Medic on Iwo, he was killed there.
My Granddaddy was in N. Africa.
Had a uncle (Granddaddy's brother), ended up in a foxhole two miles behind German lines. His buddy with him went crazy and sliced him open. He had to kill his buddy then make it out holding his gutes in his hands without getting cought.
Those were some tough men.

The Marine uncle that made the beach landings was named William Barrett Travis St**** after the commander of the Alamo.
I always thought that name didn't work out to well for the first guy with it, guess it was better the second go around.