The Challenge

[Dylan Biggs]

i guess i missed this thread - but then i usually just skim them for the word "hereford".

seems to me in your example your emphasis for below or average traits compared to above average are broken into "terminall" vs " maternal" and basically the brunt of your emphasis is for optimization at home without as much for further down the production line.

i'm in the relatively early stages of the same thing and i often wonder if what i'm willing to sacrifice will maybe optimize at home but devalue the cattle down the line.

i'm just curious to any correlations you may have observed with selection emphasis for optimization at home that have may have either 1) devalued the end product so much you aren't willing to sacrifice it or 2) the other way around, found something that increases both.

for example - not often do i hear people talk about maternal attentiveness and i've never really put selection pressure on it... but i definitaly can correlate a bloodline to it and appreciate its value - maybe a tangent here but there is nothing more frustrating than cows that take off to greener grass without their calf on the move and once they get there suddenly remember they are a mama and turn around and cause havok - i've never put selection pressure on it just found ways to manage it usually at my own labor expense (pretty cheap!). has any selection pressure you've put on this trait or others correlated with cattle that fed, yeild, grade any better/worse? just an example of what i'd like to hear you share.

Hereford76, getting far to busy outside now and with some other distractions, I am glad I caught your question because it is a good one.

Your terminal maternal distinction is right on, the distinction between, and the separate roles of parent stock and production stock is often overlooked in maternal breeding programs. Over time this mis applied evaluation results in a cow herd lacking in functionally efficient maternal qualities. To quote Mike Keeney "Doesn`t almost everyone think in terms of the best production stock becoming the parent stock of the next generation? ".

In my experience it is important to acknowledge the reality of trait antagonisms to avoid the futile attempt of breeding cattle that can do it all. I want to avoid breeding a population of cattle that are jack of all and master of none.

Type differences between breeds are obvious. Jersey, Fleckvieh, Chianina, Belgium Blue, Murray Grey are breeds distinct in type and application. This is a result of application specific functional selection. It does not seem reasonable based on type and function correlation that one breed can do and be all things and yet the fantastic yet futile quest is ongoing.

What we are prepared to accept as adequate in terms of down the line performance with our Angus parent stock cattle would be moderation in cut yield, gain performance, frame and growth potential and carcass weight, relative to our crossbred cattle.

The flip side of what may percieved as a sacrifice is a higher degree of relative maternal function.

Without margin no cattle can be profitable. We have put ourselves in a position relative to input costs and our value added processing/marketing to ensure enterprise viability.

Re maternal attentiveness we are not far enough down the line in the selection process to notice any real improvement yet let alone any additional side effects.

Dylan

 

[DOC HARRIS]

Dylan and Hereford76-

This thread has developed into one of the most interesting and significantly expedient subjects to appear on CT in several years! Any Forum member who has followed the various threads recently concerning the intricacies of Beef Cattle production is well aware of how "Multiple Trait Selection" choices take precedence over "Single Trait Selection" 'impetuous' or reckless decisions.

By reading Dylan's remarks to Herefords76's well-thought-out questions, one may determine how important it is to establish priorities and specifics when focusing on the details of seedstock selection factors. Also, the consequences of preserving a balance between critical factors, and those of lower importance in the overall decision-making protocols which all producers must accomplish to be considered successful in their BU$INE$$ efforts!

The operative term here, in this thread, is establishing priorties! Each breeder must ascertain for his or her own particular prerequisites the traits and characteristics which are necessary for their particular circumstances.

"Mixing" genes is NOT a provocative alternative to conceptual molecular breeding selections. My Dad used to tell me, "Think - before making life-altering decisions!"

DOC HARRIS

 

[Hereford76]

Hereford76, getting far to busy outside now and with some other distractions, I am glad I caught your question because it is a good one.

Your terminal maternal distinction is right on, the distinction between, and the separate roles of parent stock and production stock is often overlooked in maternal breeding programs. Over time this mis applied evaluation results in a cow herd lacking in functionally efficient maternal qualities. To quote Mike Keeney "Doesn`t almost everyone think in terms of the best production stock becoming the parent stock of the next generation? ".

In my experience it is important to acknowledge the reality of trait antagonisms to avoid the futile attempt of breeding cattle that can do it all. I want to avoid breeding a population of cattle that are jack of all and master of none.

Type differences between breeds are obvious. Jersey, Fleckvieh, Chianina, Belgium Blue, Murray Grey are breeds distinct in type and application. This is a result of application specific functional selection. It does not seem reasonable based on type and function correlation that one breed can do and be all things and yet the fantastic yet futile quest is ongoing.

What we are prepared to accept as adequate in terms of down the line performance with our Angus parent stock cattle would be moderation in cut yield, gain performance, frame and growth potential and carcass weight, relative to our crossbred cattle.

The flip side of what may percieved as a sacrifice is a higher degree of relative maternal function.

Without margin no cattle can be profitable. We have put ourselves in a position relative to input costs and our value added processing/marketing to ensure enterprise viability.

Re maternal attentiveness we are not far enough down the line in the selection process to notice any real improvement yet let alone any additional side effects.

Dylan

i thought this was the distraction...

 

[MF135]

"maternal breed"????

You know, Angus, hereford, and beef shorthorn. Not to be confused with the terminal continental breeds- charolais, limosine, blonde.etc.. or the dual purpose breeds like real simmentals, gelbvieh, or red poll.