The Article AGAINST Crossbreeding
- Thread starter MikeC
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novatech
Well-known member
OK I'll post over here too.
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I find it interesting that they claim it is to costly to raise or purchase F1's. Makes me wonder why so many professional cattlemen do it. Even more, it makes me wonder why I had repeat buyers for my F1's. I guess if you don't have purebred A's you'll go broke.
I wonder how much premium will be paid for black hair when the market is flooded with it. With many of the breeds going to black it does not seem like it will take very long.
I think I will stay with improving the quality of what I already have.
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I find it interesting that they claim it is to costly to raise or purchase F1's. Makes me wonder why so many professional cattlemen do it. Even more, it makes me wonder why I had repeat buyers for my F1's. I guess if you don't have purebred A's you'll go broke.
I wonder how much premium will be paid for black hair when the market is flooded with it. With many of the breeds going to black it does not seem like it will take very long.
I think I will stay with improving the quality of what I already have.
hillsdown
Well-known member
Can you post the whole article as I am on my lap top and have limited access?
Good job Mike, I tried to post that thing several times but couldn't find it on the net and am too lazy to type it out by hand from my Angus Bulletin hard copy. When Angus FINALLY posted the October Angus Bulletin online they left THAT article out for some reason.
LFF
Well-known member
Mike you do realize that acording to the chart, purebred Angus average Low choice. Only 3.1% graded prime. It makes the point that I mentioned in another post " both Herefords and Angus need to improve in marbling".
LFF":33knywd1 said:
I hope that I am wrong; but I don't believe that in a typical commercial setting you can consistently get pens where 50% of the steers grade prime unless you have toadie little 2/3 frame scores......or you are feeding concentrated ration from birth (and even then I have doubts). Your normal 5 - 6 frame calves just aren't likely to be far enough along on their growth curves to get there in a reasonable amount of time when killed. The industry could very well prove me wrong and while your original premise is right I doubt that high growth cattle are ever going to be really consistent grading prime.
popsjp
Well-known member
Having read both articles I am more confused now than before reading. My question is which article do you believe, the one that supports personal thoughts or beliefs? Or does it just make you question everything? Interesting to say the least.
popsjp":2wdu0mwu said:
Don't be confused. First, the article Mike titled "..AGAINST crossbreeding" isn't really against crossbreeding. It also acknowledges the benefits of crossbreeding. But it also looks at the problems of crossbreeding and the benefits of straight breeding. Some of the research in the "FOR" article is almost 30 years old. We've improved the genetics in cattle since then. Some of the research in the "AGAINST" article is more current. You just have to read, research, and decide which will work better for your program.
cypressfarms
Well-known member
Personally I don't believe the VP of the CAB LLC has my welfare in mind when writing articles. I'm lucky that I am very close to LSU which has numerous classes - which seem to NOT have a financial interest in the outcome of a paper or research.
greenwillowhereford II
Well-known member
Frankie, you mentioned in another thread that you have a commercial herd also. If you don't mind my asking, is it straight Angus as well?
greenwillowhereford II
Well-known member
cypressfarms":nsoh4kxn said:
I think the day may have come when you found something clever to say.
novatech
Well-known member
Could it be that they know they have to have heterosis for the feed lot to buy the animals? Their rules stipulate 51% black hided.
If black brings more money then why do F1's cost to much? :roll:
I would like to see a comparison of the straight breeds vs. crosses, all grading choice, in regards to back fat.
I quote a local backgrounder and feeder I talked to yesterday, since the subject came up, "Three ways will put money in his bank account every time. More lbs. across the scale at less dollar input is what it is all about. The few cents more you may get for pure blacks just does not justify the expense as compared to the three way cross." That info. is about as current as you can get.
If black brings more money then why do F1's cost to much? :roll:
I would like to see a comparison of the straight breeds vs. crosses, all grading choice, in regards to back fat.
I quote a local backgrounder and feeder I talked to yesterday, since the subject came up, "Three ways will put money in his bank account every time. More lbs. across the scale at less dollar input is what it is all about. The few cents more you may get for pure blacks just does not justify the expense as compared to the three way cross." That info. is about as current as you can get.
TREY-L
Well-known member
IMHO, It is just a matter of time before the house of cards comes tumbling down, the "big black bubble" will burst eventually. The conglomerate of black breeds that are being marketed as CAB will destroy the reputation of the Angus breed, CAB will stand for nothing more than mongrelized black cattle (M.B.C). You can only fool the American public for so long. I think the Angus Assn. has created a Pandora's Box, full of the promises of easy and quick premiums for black hided cattle. In the end it will destroy the very thing that the Angus Assn. has so desperately tried to sell to every producer in America, the reputation of the breed itself. I may be totally wrong, I hope I am, but only time will tell. My opinion on the article that Mike posted is that it appears to be a form of damage control, due to the infusion of all the genetic material which the CAB folks have so generously accepted.
FWIW, Trey
FWIW, Trey
greenwillowhereford II":3mbka18n said:
We sold the commercial cattle when we started with the registered Angus. But, no, they weren't straight Angus. They were mostly a variety of breeds and colors.
MikeC
Well-known member
Not to be combative, but having small cattle in no way assures that you will have higher quality grades.
I was fortunate enough to see the data on a large group of calves from Hereford cows that were bred to a prominent Lowline bull. Those calves may have set a record in dollars lost for a retained ownership program.
badroute
Well-known member
Even though I raise black hided cattle I believe Trey L's post holds as much truth as any post I have ever read on this site. Well done.
Brandonm2":32l11wta said:
i can't understand why people keep coming up with this argument. 50% of the beef market is low choice at best, another 25% is below choice. i think the distribution curve for the overall market is where it needs to be. probably less than 10% of the market is for premium. probably less than 2% is for niche marketing, ie grassfed, organic etc. with holstein's marlbing so well, is there even a real need for any improvement in the market place? one way to create a market for more beef is to reduce poverty. fully 40% of the population pays no federal income tax. no one is ever going to sell a niche anything to these people.
The key is to know what you have. If your cows have the genetics to produce Choice prime calves on a reasonable amount of feed then go for it. If you are in a Hot climate and have alot of ear in your herd or maybe a strong continental influence market them on the lb basis as opposed to a quality basis. Cattle feeders will behave differently in different situations, Low corn prices will allow cattle to have more finish and still be profitable. High corn prices and iffy genetics and they will sell them and try and hit select with no thought of the choice premium.
greenwillowhereford II
Well-known member
Frankie":ca7n0sgr said:
The most current research out there is still underway, a direct comparison of Hereford and Angus bulls used on Angus cows, and at the end of the first year, after all the data was tabulated, the baldies recorded a $77 per head higher profit margin. The latest news in this test is that the second years calf crop has been weaned with the baldies averaging 13# per head heavier. I speak of the Lacy Livestock/Harris Ranch research.
