Teachers with guns

[Caustic Burno]

You want a black gun better buy one pretty soon IMOO. I sense the assault weapons ban is coming back.
The general public is ready.

 

[BRYANT]

Against it. What happens the first time that gun goes off and hurts someone by accident or fault?
The school district and teacher would be sued immediately. Schools already face a lot of lawsuits.
We already have trained security officers on high school campuses in our city.
I asked about having metal detectors but that would mean having only one entrance into the school.
So, that would take over 1:30 to get all the students into the building to start the day.

We can thousands of people through a gate for sporting events, concerts, airports, our court houses, air ports, no reason they cant do it at a school. If it takes and extra 1:30 then get there early they would for a football game or anything else they like to do. The gun control people may like these school shooting more than some people think

 

[BRYANT]

How do you block someone that most of the stuff they say is stupid and makes no sense, if you don't want to see their foolish remarks

 

[greybeard]

.......... how fast could some of those be stopped by a minimum wage, retired door greater... or just some on payed... to pay attention. How would this have gone if a 75 year old man spotted a gun on this kid walking in and hit a button that sent the whole school in to lock down?

Well assuming a class had about 20-30 students in it, and the shooter was already in a classroom that did NOT have an armed teacher in it, the casualties would probably still be significant.

As far as the age (going by my 1st picture) that 75 yr old be a little extreme, but many of us here are in our mid to late 60s (or older) , retired, and still very proficient with a firearm and still have the mental facility to be able to sound an electronic warning. I don't know how many schools have such a capability in each classroom either.

(I have not read a minute-by-minute account of exactly what happened in Fla or how the shooter worked his way into and back out of the school..whether the shots were fired in classrooms or in a crowded hallway, but I believe I read that he activated a fire alarm which filled the halls.)

 

[callmefence]

Teachers should be required to take firearms training and carry just like police officers.
And they should be paid more for it. Alot more. Enough to draw the very best.
We have locks on our doors, chains on our gates. valuables in a safe. We should expect and demand much more for our children.
Mental health does nothing when you find out someone in nuts after they start shooting. They only way to consistently and 100percent stop a nut intent on doing mass damage. Is to kill them as fast as possible. That means a gun in every room.

 

[Hunter]

Against it. What happens the first time that gun goes off and hurts someone by accident or fault?
The school district and teacher would be sued immediately. Schools already face a lot of lawsuits.
We already have trained security officers on high school campuses in our city.
I asked about having metal detectors but that would mean having only one entrance into the school.
So, that would take over 1:30 to get all the students into the building to start the day.

We can thousands of people through a gate for sporting events, concerts, airports, our court houses, air ports, no reason they cant do it at a school. If it takes and extra 1:30 then get there early they would for a football game or anything else they like to do. The gun control people may like these school shooting more than some people think

Those events have multiple entries with some going in earlier than others or even after the event has started.
School would have one entry with everyone supposed to be there at a certain time and not many of those students are going want to get there earlier than need be. Maybe it is only 45 mins but it all depends on the size of the school.

 

[slick4591]

How do you block someone that most of the stuff they say is stupid and makes no sense, if you don't want to see their foolish remarks

Just click on their name then click add foe.

 

[greybeard]

Teachers should be required to take firearms training and carry just like police officers.
And they should be paid more for it. Alot more. Enough to draw the very best.
We have locks on our doors, chains on our gates. valuables in a safe. We should expect and demand much more for our children.
Mental health does nothing when you find out someone in nuts after they start shooting. They only way to consistently and 100percent stop a nut intent on doing mass damage. Is to kill them as fast as possible. That means a gun in every room.

Not against this either, but I want them to have different and better firearms and threat assessment training than most police officers.

 

[OwnedByTheCow]

I don't think that every teacher should have a gun. But if they want a gun, and put in the time and effort to train and be able to safely have a gun in school then they should have the ability to if they wanted to. If a teacher isn't comfortable having a gun on their person then they should not have to.
How do you stop students from getting control of the gun however?

 

[Craig Miller]

I am strongly against any military division providing security on a school campus. That's a slippery slope.

Our state already deals the cc course adequate to carry in public. If any of those kids are in wal-mart, McDonald's, or most other places in public they are already around people who are cc. That same teacher could be cc in a restaurant right next to their student any other time.

That should not end just because they step in to a school.

What slope would that be? I dont see how its any different than having armed security. And a conceal carrier is not the same as putting yourself in front of a gunman intentionally which is what you would be asking a teacher to do. Thats what cops and military do. That diffrent than having a gun to protect yourself

 

[Brute 23]

I am strongly against any military division providing security on a school campus. That's a slippery slope.

Our state already deals the cc course adequate to carry in public. If any of those kids are in wal-mart, McDonald's, or most other places in public they are already around people who are cc. That same teacher could be cc in a restaurant right next to their student any other time.

That should not end just because they step in to a school.

What slope would that be? I dont see how its any different than having armed security. And a conceal carrier is not the same as putting yourself in front of a gunman intentionally which is what you would be asking a teacher to do. Thats what cops and military do. That diffrent than having a gun to protect yourself

I am not asking a teacher to put themself in front of a gunman. I am saying an individual, like a teacher, should be able to cc in a school if they choose.

 

[greybeard]

Craig...The Posse Comitatus Act precludes the US military from acting unilaterally as a police force except if called upon in extreme measures. It would take congress or a presidential order (and even then, Congress would need to act as well) for exceptions to Posse Comitatus to happen.

"The Act does not apply to the Army National Guard and the Air National Guard under state authority from acting in a law enforcement capacity within its home state or in an adjacent state if invited by that state's governor."

The text of the relevant legislation is as follows:

18 U.S.C. § 1385. Use of Army and Air Force as posse comitatus
Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.
Also notable is the following provision within Title 10 of the United States Code (which concerns generally the organization and regulation of the armed forces and Department of Defense):

10 U.S.C. § 375. Restriction on direct participation by military personnel
The Secretary of Defense shall prescribe such regulations as may be necessary to ensure that any activity (including the provision of any equipment or facility or the assignment or detail of any personnel) under this chapter does not include or permit direct participation by a member of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps in a search, seizure, arrest, or other similar activity unless participation in such activity by such member is otherwise authorized by law.

There are exceptions and there have been violations, such as in 2009.

"On March 10, 2009, members of the U.S. Army Military Police Corps from Fort Rucker were deployed to Samson, Alabama, in response to a murder spree. Samson officials confirmed that the soldiers assisted in traffic control and securing the crime scene. The governor of Alabama did not request military assistance nor did President Obama authorize their deployment. Subsequent investigation found that the Posse Comitatus Act was violated and several military members received "administrative actions""

The 'slippery slope' is that once this cat is out of the bag, it would be difficult to limit it's scope and next thing we know, we would have a national police force..a prospect we as a nation have long sought to avoid.
Remember...precedent carries a lot of weight in any court.

No..no troops in classrooms and only in the streets if the local or state police are overwhelmed by either numbers or responsibilities. I have high respect for the troops, but their training is completely different than what would be required in a school setting imo.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I am strongly against any military division providing security on a school campus. That's a slippery slope.

Our state already deals the cc course adequate to carry in public. If any of those kids are in wal-mart, McDonald's, or most other places in public they are already around people who are cc. That same teacher could be cc in a restaurant right next to their student any other time.

That should not end just because they step in to a school.

What slope would that be? I dont see how its any different than having armed security. And a conceal carrier is not the same as putting yourself in front of a gunman intentionally which is what you would be asking a teacher to do. Thats what cops and military do. That diffrent than having a gun to protect yourself

Military other than the National Guard is unconstitutional that is a slippery slope to totalitarian government.

 

[greybeard]

No..not unconstitutional. It is a violation of Federal Statute Law tho.

 

[Craig Miller]

Ok I see your point. National guard then. Brute I agree that anybody should be able to carry. What good would it do if they aren't willing to use it

 

[Hunter]

How many states allow individuals to carry without passing a test?
I could carry in Missouri without taking a CC test. I don't think I am allowed to carry across state lines though.

 

[Bright Raven]

How many states allow individuals to carry without passing a test?
I could carry in Missouri without taking a CC test. I don't think I am allowed to carry across state lines though.

Yes you are. Look up reciprocity.

You should get a CC permit in Denver! I think I went through a week of nightly classes, then a Saturday with an individual instructor on the range, then a sit down interview with the Denver Police Dept.

Edited to add: maybe getting a permit should be like that everywhere. It would weed out a lot of people who do not have the proficiency that is needed to carry a concealed weapon.

 

[Craig Miller]

How many states allow individuals to carry without passing a test?
I could carry in Missouri without taking a CC test. I don't think I am allowed to carry across state lines though.

Alabama. Reciprocity is the word like BR said. I'm able to carry in lots of states. Every state I travel through for work.

 

[Bright Raven]

How many states allow individuals to carry without passing a test?
I could carry in Missouri without taking a CC test. I don't think I am allowed to carry across state lines though.

Alabama. Reciprocity is the word like BR said. I'm able to carry in lots of states. Every state I travel through for work.

I think only 4 states do not honor reciprocity.

 

[Brute 23]

Ok I see your point. National guard then. Brute I agree that anybody should be able to carry. What good would it do if they aren't willing to use it

That is their choice in the moment IMO. That is the point of being truely free.

I support CC and even supported OC 100% even though I do not do either nor do I plan to in the near future.