Stop the train

[Caustic Burno]

Your dam has a cost per day as well as the heifer until she return's income to the operation.
The dam went two year's without returning income you have 16 months in the heifer from weaning till calving.
Both these cow's have a per day cost, retained heifers are not free by any mean's.
You have to know your cost to keep a cow in the pasture everyday.
For me the cost would be about 1500 dollars figured at 1.50 a day. Before the drought here I figure I was at about 1.27 a day to upkeep a cow.

I can rent pasture, buy quality hay and mineral, vaccines, etc., for less than a dollar a day per head. That is why I asked about the high cost of raising a heifer. I keep all of mine to build the herd, the ones that don't cut it, get used for freezer beef and I about break even.

It will surprise you how many people do not have a clue to what it really cost to keep a cow.
They know what the salebarn check is but couldn't give the true input cost on a cow standing in their pasture if their life depended on it.

 

[fitz]

Over time I've bought heavy bred cows, open commercial and registered heifers. Have made a little money on most and still have a few of each. But, I'm back to what I enjoy the most and have had the best luck with. I raise my own heifers.

fitz

 

[Dave]

The people I buy my bulls from told me a few years back that they figured it cost $1,100 to raise a heifer to calving. These people do nothing but cattle. No day job. And they have been pretty successful. I know that they keep real good records. So when they say their real cost are $1,100 I believe them.

A few years back when you could buy the best bred cow at the sale for $800 it didn't make a lot of sence to retain heifers. But now with bred cows and heifers worth $1,500-1,800 retaining heifers is just good business.

 

[Stocker Steve]

The people I buy my bulls from told me a few years back that they figured it cost $1,100 to raise a heifer to calving. These people do nothing but cattle. No day job. And they have been pretty successful. I know that they keep real good records. So when they say their real cost are $1,100 I believe them.

A few years back when you could buy the best bred cow at the sale for $800 it didn't make a lot of sence to retain heifers. But now with bred cows and heifers worth $1,500-1,800 retaining heifers is just good business.

But how much has the cost for raise a heifer gone up in a few years?

I think it makes sense to retain in a rising market - - so looking back we should have been building in 2009/2010/2011...

Time for Crystal ball.

 

[Dave]

The people I buy my bulls from told me a few years back that they figured it cost $1,100 to raise a heifer to calving. These people do nothing but cattle. No day job. And they have been pretty successful. I know that they keep real good records. So when they say their real cost are $1,100 I believe them.

A few years back when you could buy the best bred cow at the sale for $800 it didn't make a lot of sence to retain heifers. But now with bred cows and heifers worth $1,500-1,800 retaining heifers is just good business.

But how much has the cost for raise a heifer gone up in a few years?

I think it makes sense to retain in a rising market - - so looking back we should have been building in 2009/2010/2011...

Time for Crystal ball.

Some cost are pretty fixed. The big increase is the value of the heifer as she comes off the cow. That has gone up a bunch. When they told me that number they were probably figuring a 500-600 pound heifer worth 80 or 90 cents, maybe a dollar. That same heifer is worth a bunch more now.

Yes that Crystal Ball would come in handy.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

The people I buy my bulls from told me a few years back that they figured it cost $1,100 to raise a heifer to calving. These people do nothing but cattle. No day job. And they have been pretty successful. I know that they keep real good records. So when they say their real cost are $1,100 I believe them.

A few years back when you could buy the best bred cow at the sale for $800 it didn't make a lot of sence to retain heifers. But now with bred cows and heifers worth $1,500-1,800 retaining heifers is just good business.

But how much has the cost for raise a heifer gone up in a few years?

I think it makes sense to retain in a rising market - - so looking back we should have been building in 2009/2010/2011...

Time for Crystal ball.

Some cost are pretty fixed. The big increase is the value of the heifer as she comes off the cow. That has gone up a bunch. When they told me that number they were probably figuring a 500-600 pound heifer worth 80 or 90 cents, maybe a dollar. That same heifer is worth a bunch more now.

Yes that Crystal Ball would come in handy.

I sold 2 heifers last week,,, that averaged just shy of 900.00 a piece and one was exactly 100 pnds lighter than the other

 

[sackshowcattle]

I always retain my own. Even if it costs more up front. When you factor in possible calving issues from buying heavy bred heifers and the chance of the original owner using questionable bw bulls or even high birthweight cows. A few dead calves or vet calls and this route would cost more. Next buying second or third calvers. They are safer but you have to factor in one or two fewer calves over the average lifespan of a cow and its still not cheaper then retaining. Third reason I keep my own and most importantly disease it doesn't take long for vaccine cost on some of these diseases or even calves lost to something like bvd if they are carriers to completely ruine a calving season and take a few years to get back on track. Then you can look at some of the smaller stuff like you know the core group your cows go back to so you know how their longevity is, female side of birthweight, how they should milk, and other general things like temperment. On top of this it makes it a lot easier to keep uniform groups knowing that most of that years group is from the same few bulls and similar bred cows. You know if a bull got in the wrong pasture or neighbors bull jumped in, no were did that wild looking salebarn dud come from when its born.

 

[salebarn junkie]

I hate heifers nothing worse than messing with one for 2 years and it not milking good, not taking care of the calf, not breeding back, i could go on forever.

 

[Ouachita]

I hate heifers nothing worse than messing with one for 2 years and it not milking good, not taking care of the calf, not breeding back, i could go on forever.

Well I wish you would go on forever, so a rookie like myself could have a clue.

 

[Cabo]

I hate heifers nothing worse than messing with one for 2 years and it not milking good, not taking care of the calf, not breeding back, i could go on forever.

This sounds a lot like buying culls at the salebarn. The only calves that I have had to pull were from heifers bought there.

 

[TexasBred]

I hate heifers nothing worse than messing with one for 2 years and it not milking good, not taking care of the calf, not breeding back, i could go on forever.

This sounds a lot like buying culls at the salebarn. The only calves that I have had to pull were from heifers bought there.

If you want to practice up on your calf pulling, buy you a herd of holsteins. :nod:

 

[North Ridge Ranching]

Your dam has a cost per day as well as the heifer until she return's income to the operation.
The dam went two year's without returning income you have 16 months in the heifer from weaning till calving.
Both these cow's have a per day cost, retained heifers are not free by any mean's.
You have to know your cost to keep a cow in the pasture everyday.
For me the cost would be about 1500 dollars figured at 1.50 a day. Before the drought here I figure I was at about 1.27 a day to upkeep a cow.

I agree with you on having to know what it costs to keep an animal on your ranch. What I don't agree with you on is your philosophy that the dam has no return for 2 years. If she has a calf that is alive in the fall, she shows income. It may not be cash flow, but it is income. If you were to sell that heifer, it would be cash flow, keeping her means you are not buying another cow, the income from the dam is then what you didn't spend on buying a replacement minus the cost of raising that heifer one more year until she calves.

I will tell you one thing that I learned the hard way. Unless you have a consistent supplier of replacement animals that allows you input into what they are supplying, you will never end up with the herd of cows, that carry the traits you want, as good as keeping your own replacements and culling hard. We bought replacements for years and all I did was watch our herd deteriorate. We had more calving issues, more death loss, and poorer production out of our cows. Since going back to keeping our own, we have done nothing but turn our herd around. In the last 2 years we have only lost one calf at calving, and even that one was born alive and was laid on. We have only helped 3 cows calve in the last 2 years and only one was not a due to the calf's presentation. That cow no longer resides on this ranch.

4 years ago we bought 17 cows from a reputable herd, all second calvers, and we only have one left from that group. I think I will stick to keeping my own.

 

[agmantoo]

I read many of the posts here regarding costs of production along with low returns. Either many of the operations are for hobby or input costs are out of control. My feeder calf income carries the entire herd and I intend to make a profit with todays prices and in the future when the prices drop. Paramount if in this business for profit is getting the input expenses under control instead of dwelling on what cross with what breed which is IMO too often debated. With my low overhead I have no need to address the cost to raise a heifer as I will more than recover that as a bonus from her when she eventually goes to market. Concentrating on buying expensive cows now and anticipating on whether a profit will be had or not in the future is more than a dice throw. Get the input costs under control to where you know now if you can make a profit in the future at more realistic sell prices and make your decisions on that information would be my thoughts.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Your dam has a cost per day as well as the heifer until she return's income to the operation.
The dam went two year's without returning income you have 16 months in the heifer from weaning till calving.
Both these cow's have a per day cost, retained heifers are not free by any mean's.
You have to know your cost to keep a cow in the pasture everyday.
For me the cost would be about 1500 dollars figured at 1.50 a day. Before the drought here I figure I was at about 1.27 a day to upkeep a cow.

I agree with you on having to know what it costs to keep an animal on your ranch. What I don't agree with you on is your philosophy that the dam has no return for 2 years. If she has a calf that is alive in the fall, she shows income. It may not be cash flow, but it is income. If you were to sell that heifer, it would be cash flow, keeping her means you are not buying another cow, the income from the dam is then what you didn't spend on buying a replacement minus the cost of raising that heifer one more year until she calves.

I will tell you one thing that I learned the hard way. Unless you have a consistent supplier of replacement animals that allows you input into what they are supplying, you will never end up with the herd of cows, that carry the traits you want, as good as keeping your own replacements and culling hard. We bought replacements for years and all I did was watch our herd deteriorate. We had more calving issues, more death loss, and poorer production out of our cows. Since going back to keeping our own, we have done nothing but turn our herd around. In the last 2 years we have only lost one calf at calving, and even that one was born alive and was laid on. We have only helped 3 cows calve in the last 2 years and only one was not a due to the calf's presentation. That cow no longer resides on this ranch.

4 years ago we bought 17 cows from a reputable herd, all second calvers, and we only have one left from that group. I think I will stick to keeping my own.

You recieved no cash flow from the dam for two years and paid to keep her in your pasture. The heifer you retained also require's input's for month's with no return. The retained heifer is weaned at 205 day's it's another 215 days until breeding age at 14 months. Then you have another 283 day's during gestation adding another 200 day's until you sell her calf that's right at 700 day's input cost before recieving a return. Now the dam went 700 plus day's not generating any cash flow. On top of all that if retained heifer fall's over dead she has no value to the IRS as you have already written off her input cost.

I am not saying what is right or wrong .
I have carried two Bovine's for a total of 700 day's each with not one red cent on income returned on capital employed.
I am saying retained heifer's come at a high price they are a long way from being free.

 

[lavacarancher]

Folks, I gotta say that I never thought I would hear anyone on here griping about the price of cattle. At $2/lb for 6 wts I'm dancing' in the streets!!!!

I raise my own replacement heifers, I don't buy them. Almost all of my cattle are red, polled, big butts, flat back, the cows are easy birthers, no sickness, fat, gentle (still have one that's a little crazy) and everything that can get pregnant did and does. This is from raising my own. I buy replacement bulls that have been certified with good genetics. What else is there???? Maybe I'm doing something wrong but it works for me.

 

[North Ridge Ranching]

@ Caustic Burno

You are right about how long you go without cash coming in, I'm not debating that, but keeping a heifer off a cow does not make that cow less profitable. By keeping that calf, you are losing the cash that you would of got for that calf but you also don't have the expence of purchasing a replacement. I guess if you buy your replacement cow the day before she calves you don't have any carrying cost but if not she has costs until she calves and until you sell her calf at 205 days as well. By your calculations, you carry a cow and replacement for 700 days at a cost of $2109.00 ( $1.50 x 1400 days ). What do think you would pay for a cow that is as good as a replacement you keep out of the heart of you herd, maybe about $1500.00 to $1700 this spring, plus $310.00 to carry her through the summer until you sell her calf. That comes to $1800 to $2000 if you bought her the day she calves. You only have to have that cow 2 months before she calves to be the same cost. I will take a home raised heifer over that outside cow that I know nothing about other than what I can see any day. Especially at the same cost.

The death loss is a wash to me. A cow that comes from outside of my herd has a better chance of dying than any home raised calf that has been through my vaccination program.

I guess what I am saying is that buying your replacement stock is not free either. They come at quite a cost as well, let alone adding to your risk by not knowing as much about them. Your risk of a poor animal that needs to be culled is alot higher when purchasing them.

 

[rnh1]

farming is legalized gambling.

 

[rnh1]

you used to borrow $ for cows without extra collateral. now the banks want 1/2 down or another cow for each one you borrow $ on

 

[Caustic Burno]

you used to borrow $ for cows without extra collateral. now the banks want 1/2 down or another cow for each one you borrow $ on

It doesn't matter if your playing the pasture or Wall Street stock market never invest more than your willing and can afford to loose.
Well I wouldn't know on that as I have never borrowed on one.
If I didn't have the cash I didn't need the cow.
Now I do know as far as raising heifer's versus buying a producing cow, you are ahead buying the cow, money and tax wise. In a commercial operation there is no genetic benifit to retaining your own.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

This is one of those "agree to disagree" threads.

I can see pros and cons to both sides of the argument but when the day comes I would hope to be able to retain a certain percentage of my heifers for many of the reasons outlined in this thread already. In the meantime I'll be purchasing proven cows and building my herd that way.