Stirring the pot on the LH/corriente topic

[Warren Allison]

Having a business based off deception to make a profit is not a long term plan. I dont say that from some kind of ethical or moral high ground, even though I wouldnt personally do it. It's from business and life experience that I know it eventually catches up to people. That is my only issue with the Corriente deal like Warren is describing.

Deception is not a long term business model.

If you can sell them for roping, or freezer beef or what ever, have at it.

Hoss, you need to settle down and think before you type. Are you seriously accusing me of deceiving somebody?!! How do you think I have deceived anyone? Like I posted on another thread, in 30 years of doing this 2 people have asked me at the sale what kinds of calves they were. .and I told them. They then asked what a Corriente was.. and I told them. And one other time someone at the unloading area asked me if they were half Corriente/half Angus. And I said no, they are half Corriente and half Brangus. So where have I been deceptive?!!!

 

[gcreekrch]

[IMG alt="Warren Allison"]https://data.www.cattletoday.com/avatars/m/40/40587.jpg?1631368125[/IMG]
​

Warren Allison​

CT Supporter​

Cattle Today Supporter​

JoinedAug 9, 2020Messages3,345Reaction score5,557LocationNW Georgia

• 26 minutes ago
• 
  
• Add bookmark
• #59

Jeeze... I never thought I could get interested but under those rules I wish I was still in the business.

I wish you were too, cause I'd love to take your money. But, all you really need for this challenge, is $200k. You don't even need pastures. I will provide them.

But I'd also insist on full disclosure to the buyers and you'd never do it because your entire house-of-cards is built on hiding that your product is half Corriente.

I have never hid a damned thing. The THREE people that asked about them in 30 years, were told exactly what they were. I wish you could build a house out of cards that will stand for 30 years! And the whole purpose of this challenge, is to prove something to all the nay -sayers on here that have said that what I have done for 30 years can't be done. And especially all the "experts" like @gcreekrch with his "How can anyone not tell , with their narrow faces and hatchet-azzes, that they are half Southwest Exotics?" So, no, you don't tell anyone anything unless asked. Let's see how many buyers can tell. Or even care.

Oh, and you could pick the color of the bulls but I'd have to pick the bulls.

Definitely no. A huge part of our success is due to the quality bulls we have been using. There will be a good selection of registered Brangus bulls. You get first pick of all of them, one for each 20 cows you buy. I will even let you pick MY bulls out of the group.

Having a business based off deception to make a profit is not a long term plan. I dont say that from some kind of ethical or moral high ground, even though I wouldnt personally do it. It's from business and life experience that I know it eventually catches up to people. That is my only issue with the Corriente deal like Warren is describing.

Deception is not a long term business model.

If you can sell them for roping, or freezer beef or what ever, have at it.

Hoss, you need to settle down and think before you type. Are you seriously accusing me of deceiving somebody?!! How do you think I have deceived anyone? Like I posted on another thread, in 30 years of doing this 2 people have asked me at the sale what kinds of calves they were. .and I told them. They then asked what a Corriente was.. and I told them. And one other time someone at the unloading area asked me if they were half Corriente/half Angus. And I said no, they are half Corriente and half Brangus. So where have I been deceptive?

Your bullshat is catching up with you Old Hoss. Those who don't bullshat have no problem remembering.

 

[gcreekrch]

[IMG alt="Warren Allison"]https://data.www.cattletoday.com/avatars/m/40/40587.jpg?1631368125[/IMG]
​

Warren Allison​

CT Supporter​

Cattle Today Supporter​

JoinedAug 9, 2020Messages3,345Reaction score5,557LocationNW Georgia

• 30 minutes ago

• 
  
• Add bookmark
• #59

Jeeze... I never thought I could get interested but under those rules I wish I was still in the business.

I wish you were too, cause I'd love to take your money. But, all you really need for this challenge, is $200k. You don't even need pastures. I will provide them.

But I'd also insist on full disclosure to the buyers and you'd never do it because your entire house-of-cards is built on hiding that your product is half Corriente.

I have never hid a damned thing. The THREE people that asked about them in 30 years, were told exactly what they were. I wish you could build a house out of cards that will stand for 30 years! And the whole purpose of this challenge, is to prove something to all the nay -sayers on here that have said that what I have done for 30 years can't be done. And especially all the "experts" like @gcreekrch with his "How can anyone not tell , with their narrow faces and hatchet-azzes, that they are half Southwest Exotics?" So, no, you don't tell anyone anything unless asked. Let's see how many buyers can tell. Or even care.

Oh, and you could pick the color of the bulls but I'd have to pick the bulls.

Definitely no. A huge part of our success is due to the quality bulls we have been using. There will be a good selection of registered Brangus bulls. You get first pick of all of them, one for each 20 cows you buy. I will even let you pick MY bulls out of the group.

 

[Warren Allison]

If I buy these cows, I'm not doing it to intentionally deceive anyone. I look at it as a lower risk investment. Let's say I buy a cow for 400 and put a good bull on them, increase the cows value through improved genetics from the bull, sell the calf for 700 why is that dishonest? It's like the salvage business, adding value to something that's a little less desirable.

I talked to a friend today who's in the stocker business, has a few LH for pasture ornaments. He said you can tell the LH cross calves in the lot, but they're growing good. He's honest, and his opinion was to go for it. He and I realize they won't do quite as well as straight beef breeds but bought right they'll still make someone money. Same as buying cows. You can overpay for a cow quite easily. It's a lot harder to underpay.

Well is it stirred enough for ya yet, BFE?!!! LOL You know, you could have pulled up any of several other threads about this, and it would basically be the same people saying the same thing! I doubt in the last three years, that more than 5 people have come over to the right side. Nut, 2 different people on here .....one 2 years ago and the other 3 years ago, bought some Corr heifers and/or cows from me. They won't tell it because they don't wanna get assaulted like me, but they are both doing fine with those calves You go ahead and get those cows. Now, if you want to appease the Keepers Of The Moral Compass on here, you might wanna rent a bill board close to your place, informing people that those cows are the dreaded Corrientes.

 

[Travlr]

I wish you were too, cause I'd love to take your money.

No one is taking your bet because it's like playing "I win" with a 3yr old... and even if you win... you still only beat a 3yr old.

I think Brute just said it all...

 

[Warren Allison]

z

 

[Brute 23]

Hoss, you need to settle down and think before you type. Are you seriously accusing me of deceiving somebody?!! How do you think I have deceived anyone? Like I posted on another thread, in 30 years of doing this 2 people have asked me at the sale what kinds of calves they were. .and I told them. They then asked what a Corriente was.. and I told them. And one other time someone at the unloading area asked me if they were half Corriente/half Angus. And I said no, they are half Corriente and half Brangus. So where have I been deceptive?!!!

If it is not deception then why would you not allow it?

If it's not deception both parties should be able to say exactly what animals we have, how they have been raised, and let the buyers take it from there.

Those of us actually in the cattle business go to the sales and talk to the buyers ahead of time. We tell them what we have, how they were raised, what kind of bulls, etc. We add value to our cattle buy putting a name, face, and some background to the cattle.

 

[Mountaintown Creek Ranch]

IMO it is about making money !!!
You already think that you can make money, so why not try it.
People's opinions are like azz holes everyone has one ....

 

[Brute 23]

@BFE @StrojanHerefords

I have no problem with it as long as people are willing to stand up and put their name on their product. If there is no deception then a person should have no issue saying... I am "so and so" and I have these bred up LH or Corriente calves... then let the chips fall.

His whole premise from the get go has been a buyer can't tell my calves from the other black calves coming through. When Warren specifically says he won't allow the truth in his "game" and he purposely mentions they run by so fast the buyers can't tell... it shows that his "plan" does not work if the buyers know the truth. I do not know a better word to describe not wanting some one to know some thing to add value.



There is nothing wrong with raising Corriente or LH cattle if that is what you want... but don't come on here throwing words and money around saying it's the best way.

 

[10-e-c-dirtfarmer]

WA you the man! I agree on 95% of what you said. I may send you a PM about that 1 point. If I post it here a few locals will know who I am, I prefer to be mostly (hopefully) incognito !
I think we need more DNA diversity in the cattle herd, breeds that and have survived on there own without being hand feed corn

 

[simme]

They say a picture is worth a thousand words. Thousands of words in the thread, but no pictures. Somebody get that man a camera. Then we can all better understand and share in the joy of high profit calves and cows that generate hundreds of thousands of dollars profit per year with minimal effort.

Next step might should be offering presentations and training seminars on the techniques and opportunities with these cattle. Just a small tuition fee required to attend to learn the principles that can turn an ordinary person into a cattle baron. Someone might make a lot of money.

Big opportunity might be CCB.

 

[Little Joe]

I've not read but the first page of comments so far but I'm going to read through them all, but first I wanted to insert my experience. As you all know my main gig with cattle is finishing cattle to direct sell beef and as most know, I've been known to own some longhorn type cows and breed to beef bulls and finish those calves. Here's my experience, I've bought AI sired angus/simmental steers that I paid top dollar for, in fact they were used on the sale barn's facebook page to show how good this group of steers were and how much they had brought. To say I was dissappointed in this group of steers performance would be an understatement, one of them barely gained over a pound a day and none over 2 lbs a day, hanging weights around 625 and they had a good finish on them. I have 3 head going to proceesor today, 2 steers I bought from someone I know that are almost 2 years old and 1 home raised heifer that is 20 months. These 2 steers I gave good money for and I haven't been very Impressed with their performance, one will probably hang around 700 the other 625 or so, the heifer probably 650-675 (I'll know exact numbers this evening). Now back to the moral of the story, when I've finished LH type crosses I've gotten hanging weights around 625 at about 19 months old. I usually grain them a little when I wean them then come March I take them to a smaller pasture that I lease that has excellent grass and leave Until end of September or Maybe into October, I might go by and give them a little grain once a week to keep them coming up and about first of September I start giving them 5lbs a day every day and start working them up. The most I've ever fed one was 20lbs a day and that was probably only the last 30 days and they finish nicely. The group of straight beef calves I'm taking today have been eating 25lbs/ day for quite some time. The group of AI sired steers were getting grain from the day I bought them and around 20 lbs/ day at the end. So my point is these LH cross calves finished just as well as some of the straight beef calves and I had a lot less in them, I have had a few that were poor doers but no more so than some straight beef calves. Now I have bought straight beef steers that had great genetics and gained over 3 lbs/day on good grass and a little grain and have had a hanging weight over 800lbs on a few, these were real money makers too. So from my experience any type can leave you dissapointed as a finisher.

 

[salebarn junkie]

iam glad iam from a area were we have fast sells and people don't stand up and talk about there cattle. it would be like watching paint dry. I can't imagine setting in a sale for half a day listening to people ramble about there cattle.

 

[Little Joe]

After reading through all the comments I just want to say I'M not saying LH or corriente x calves should or will bring as much as straight beef calves, I'm just pointing out that they can perform quite well and be money makers just like some straight beef calves can underperform and not be very profitable while others are very profitable.

 

[MtnCows93]

if you ask me you are not being deceptive at all when your selling corriente beef cross calves because even though they look good you can tell what they are or at least tell they are not 100% a beef calf. the corrientes that arent 100% solid colored bred to just a regular black angus bull will come out black and white painted most of the time and the black calves will not be as beefy and fast growing as a full beef calf so thell bring maybe 80% of what an angus calf brings. i dont see anyone getting screwed they will get paid for what they brought

 

[farmerjan]

Thank you @Little Joe .... that is just what I think needs to be heard... We buy some of the "oddballs", and bull calves, to get weaned and on feed and add to other ones to make up groups. You get good and bad in most any scenario.. BUT.... the ones that have been coddled and supplemented seem to get sick more often than the ones that have had to make it on their own....
NO where did the OP @BFE say anything about trying to deceive buyers... and Although @Warren Allison gets a bit "over enthusiastic" about his "business model" and how his calves sold right along with others and no one the wiser comments.... and people getting all up in arms about their name and reputation....... ALL @BFE asked was where these cows needed to be priced to be a profitable deal for him to utilize grass that he had.

If the buyers at the barns are very good, they will pay what the calves are worth. If the graders at the barns have any eye, they will group LIKE cattle with LIKE... if sold as singles, then the buyers will see what they are getting. NO ONE said BFE was going to try to pass them off as something they were not... just where he could see some profit from some cheaper cattle.
That is why I made the comments about what pound/cull cows were bringing and what the future holds in cow numbers will determine that also.

If we had the extra grass and had the opportunity, I would buy them and if they did nothing else, they would make me some money within the year with the culling of the cows after they have raised the calf and the calf sales would be money over and above the costs and utilizing the grass..
If he breeds them to a good beef bull, and gets another calf or 2 then he is ahead even if cows drop back in cull price.
Just my 2 cents.

 

[MtnCows93]

Here we go, I thought I would smack the hornets nest and get a good one going.

How cheap do LH/corriente type cows need to be to make money on them? I've stumbled on some fairly close to home for $400 a pop. Supposed to be bred, to similar type I assume, I'm waiting for more info on that. Going forward they would be bred Angus or Simmental.

I'm low on numbers right now, I've culled hard the last few years and high prices don't have me excited about building back right now, but the cheap girls could fill a gap until "good " cows get back in my price range.

Let the fighting begin!

anyway back to the original post, id say if they are the solid colored type cow and they are bred buy them! even a straight corriente calf will bring 400 when you sell the calf. and if they are spotted id pass on them because of the dock youll get for off colored calves unless your using a charolais bull

 

[Travlr]

People's opinions are like azz holes everyone has one ....

That's a fun old trope, and certainly everyone values their own, whether an azz hole or an opinion. But all azz holes are not created equal. Some have much more value to those that are looking for quality.

 

[Brute 23]

@Warren Allison Do you have a picture if these Brangs X Corriente calves?

I have seen Angus X before.

 

[Warren Allison]

anyway back to the original post, id say if they are the solid colored type cow and they are bred buy them! even a straight corriente calf will bring 400 when you sell the calf. and if they are spotted id pass on them because of the dock youll get for off colored calves unless your using a charolais bull

I have always got black calves out of any color Corriente. But, have had a LH that was spotted, and she would have black roan calves. And yes, her calves would sell 20 or 30 cents behind the black ones.