Spring Select Brahman Bull Sale April 29 Opelousas, Louisiana

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JWBrahman

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http://www.cattleinmotion.com/issuu/spr ... ahman-sale

Not associated with the sale or participants just think there's a lot to learn looking at the videos.

My $0.0000000002
EPD's were the worst thing to happen to the Brahman cattle. Pure Gyr has been mixed into a lot of these bulls to add milk and frame in order to boost abstract numbers. Many of the reds are basically Red Brangus. But the reds were always show cattle while the greys were predominately commercial. EPDs were great for the breed association. Profits have never been higher while the quality of cattle available to the commercial cattlemen has never been lower
 

Bright Raven

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John, abstract is not the correct word in a literal sense. I do know what you mean.

EPDs are data based numbers. As data, they should be subject to data verification. I did a lot of that type of review for sampling of contaminates in the environment. For example, lead in yards in Butte, Montana. My son's finace does data validation in her job for a drug company.

Getting back to point. I often wonder about the validity and integrity of EPDs. The breed associations have lots of highly educated and diligent employees who work in this area. I would be amazed if they do not perform some form of data validation.

The issue I wonder about is how good is the data that is reported????

Regarding the other aspect of your comment, making breeding plans based on data. If you See low milk EPDs, then you look for a genetic source trait to boost milk production. You would hope the breeder is also looking at the phenotype.
 

Bigfoot

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A gentleman in the neighboring county has a herd of registered charlois. He dabbled last year, with some Brahman semen. Both red and gray. I noticed he has purchased a red Brahman bull this year. I imagine they will be priced out of my range, but I'd love to have 10 or 12 females. I thought the red was an interesting choice. Almost no Brahman here, but when you do see one, it's a gray.
 
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JWBrahman

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Thanks for the clarification, Ron. Abstract in the sense that an abstract is a brief explanation of a peer reviewed scientific paper.

EPDs are a tiny piece of the story without any real explanation.

The problem with Brahman EPDs are specific to the registry. About a dozen breeds can be registered as Brahman. Rather than focusing on refining and improving EPD's have encouraged composite breeding to boost numbers within the registered population. The breed association makes a very big deal reminding everyone of the top ten bulls for growth.

So the data is basically invalid.
 
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JWBrahman

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Bigfoot":t8cq23b9 said:
A gentleman in the neighboring county has a herd of registered charlois. He dabbled last year, with some Brahman semen. Both red and gray. I noticed he has purchased a red Brahman bull this year. I imagine they will be priced out of my range, but I'd love to have 10 or 12 females. I thought the red was an interesting choice. Almost no Brahman here, but when you do see one, it's a gray.

I won Brahman semen on Facebook, doing some pure breeding this year. An older bull named Big John.
 

BC

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JW, I went through the catalog and did not see anything that looked like Red Brangus. Trying to follow your thinking. Could you point out what you saw.
 

Bright Raven

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JWBrahman":p0jszurv said:
Thanks for the clarification, Ron. Abstract in the sense that an abstract is a brief explanation of a peer reviewed scientific paper.

EPDs are a tiny piece of the story without any real explanation.

The problem with Brahman EPDs are specific to the registry. About a dozen breeds can be registered as Brahman. Rather than focusing on refining and improving EPD's have encouraged composite breeding to boost numbers within the registered population. The breed association makes a very big deal reminding everyone of the top ten bulls for growth.

So the data is basically invalid.

That stinks! One never knows and rarely does anyone have the time to investigate. I have had several instances where I wanted to resolve issues with the ASA, I have been very impressed with those folks. They have great professional staff relating to registry, genetics, DNA testing, etc.

I think some things happen out of their control. Just as an example, the Simmental Bull Broadway. He had a respectable CE of 11 and a BW of about 1. Most recent listing shows CE of negative 1 and BW of plus 4. The rumor mill has it that he was "sabotaged". As I understand the hearsay, producers damage a bull's desirability by inflating the birthweights they report and reporting that calves had to be pulled.

My one Broadway was 72 pounds which is below my average birth weight of 87 pounds. I have two cows bred to Broadway for fall.
 
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JWBrahman

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BC":1m2izekf said:
JW, I went through the catalog and did not see anything that looked like Red Brangus. Trying to follow your thinking. Could you point out what you saw.

BC, there was a red female world champion awhile back from Louisiana that everyone knew was 1/8 Angus. She had a very specific phenotype. Basically she had a torso like a Bos taurus with the head of a Brahman. People oooohed and aaaahed all over her. Tried to recreate her using the exact same genetics on the pedigree. The Gyr head type is so dominant it will show up in an F1 Brangus. I've got a red F1 Brangus bull calf that shows almost zero physical signs of Angus. Any Red Brahman that doesn't look like the old Gyr x Guzerat crosses are highly suspicious in my book. Don't want to slam a particular animal.
 

Brute 23

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I suspect as DNA testing gets more common it will be required. Every one has known the EPDs could be easily manipulated. They were only as good as the pencil and eraser that wrote them. None of the registered guys want to admit it but that game only works if you have new blood coming in to sell the idea to otherwise you are just trading dollars for dollars.
 

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