Some need to catch Up

[Jake]

What surprised me in this thread was the issue of Simmentals and calving ease. Fire Sweep Ranch tells me calving ease is a virtue for Simmentals.

The simmentals of old are bad enough my grandpa has absolutely NO interest in every having anything simmy on the place again. Hasn't helped when he's had to pull calves out of our neighbors black simmy bulls. You get a notion ingrained in a person's head it's hard to change. Really no different than a lot of peoples stereotypes against angus.

 

[highgrit]

Buying the wrong bull 1984 changed my whole life. I bought a Charolais bull and put him on Angus and Hereford cow's. Very bad mistake lost most of my herd and had to get out of the cow business. Now there seems to be plenty of calving ease Charolais bulls available. And I believe the cows have gotten bigger and are selected more for calving ease also. Lots of folks on here are breed whores and will sell their soul for a buck. IMO

 

[East Caney]

If a quality bull can be had for the price of less than 3 steers, you're doing well.

What weight steers?
What age bull?

2 fats @ 1300 lbs @ 153.85 = $4000
2.5 fats = $5000
3 fats = $6,000

Stockers...400-600 lbs. I'm talking calves weaned off the cows. I was speaking from the vantage point of a cow/calf operater looking to replace his bull.

EC

 

[FlyingLSimmentals]

Didn't really think this thread would take off and get this many replies. Ron, I'm happy you like it. I'm gonna say my neighbor put this topic in my head. Each time he sells calves he comes by here just bragging more each time how great his calves have done and I'm happy for him and glad the market is holding. But I get tired of it when I think of all his complaining when he is purchasing breeding stock and how tight he is with his money. Have also had people call about bulls wanting to know the price on the bull when it is clearly on the ad. They'll ask me if I'll take any less or what my low $ is. After receiving the price they decide to come to see if they like the bull bringing a trailer with them. Get here and then try to low ball you of your low $ quote. Complaining on how they brought the trailer and so forth, how they haven't paid that much for a bull before etc... I think I'm too nice to people, why did you come you knew the price, you knew I have done came down to low $, you made the decision to bring the trailer instead of coming to look first. This particular case they did buy the bull for a decent price, but it was a hard sell. I told them it's a guaranteed breeding season, and that it wouldn't take long for the bull to pay for himself. Another year with further maturity and he would bring at least that much at auction. Told them as long as the bull looks as well as he did then if he went bad in that first breeding season I would come pick him back up. Haven't heard from them, therefore I'm guessing it's going well. That reminds me I need to follow up on a few I have sold. I suppose it's mostly human nature as some have said here. I think old timers get stuck in their ways, say fella's 60 + :hide: . The market is a lot different as well as some of the breeds than back when.

 

[Nesikep]

I consider myself lucky to have bought a decent Limo long yearling bull last fall for $2500, and selling my 7 year old GV bull for $2100, so I'm only out a tank of fuel and $400 for a new bull that should last me at least 4 years, depending on how I like his heifers it may be 6 years even.
I hate people who come to look at something and jew around the price when they get here.. Personally, I'll ask what the bottom line is before I come to view it, and I'll come with that in cash.. if I like it you get the cash.. If it's marked as a 'firm' price I don't ask for it to be cheaper (I may offer trades depending on the item)

 

[fitz]

oh yes the simmies have had big calving probs over the years.a friend of mine started a reg simmi herd back in the late 60s early 70s when they got hot in the us.and he had some major calving probs with them throwing big calves.then he followed the simbra craze wich really wasnt a good idea.that cross was pretty hard to handle.i think his son runs angus cows now.but thats another story.

I quoted you because that was the thought I had while reading the various posts. That was the time frame of the Simmental cow killers.
If a person is attentive during the buying process today I don't think Simmentals are any worse than other breeds in calving problems.

fitz

 

[bigbull338]

if a breed had known calving probs 1 of 2 things happened.the breeders either fixed the calving probs.2 the breed faded away.just like chininas they was some crazy son of a guns in that breed.the salers had some crazy son of guns as well.when i was a kid i was going to break and show a fullblood chi heifer.well that old hammerhead put me in the barn.then put the owner up in a hay feeder.i dont remember how we ever got out of that corral without getting busted up.needless to say i didnt show that heifer for him.

 

[SPH]

Another example of some guys being out of touch with the markets right now. Had a guy that looked at our yearling bulls earlier in the year (they've all been sold since then) contact us to see if we had any left. He was indecisive at the time but apparently now is ready to buy. Told him we sold out and the next set of yearlings we'll have up for sale haven't been weaned yet but we'd sell our 4 year old herd bull as we are taking him out of the pasture in a couple weeks and won't be using him again next year since we'll have 4 calf crops of daughters by him after next year. This bull weighed about 2200 before we turned him out so you have to figure he's probably somewhere around 2000 now after working over the summer. With slaughter prices as high as they are right now you figure he'd probably bring around $3000 at the sale barn which is what this guy was not willing to offer any more than. Told him would rather send him to slaughter for that than the keep him active, he's a registered purebred that has proven to be a light birth weight bull and we've sold several bulls and heifers sired by him so he's worth more than slaughter price. Doesn't seem too unreasonable right?

 

[Nesikep]

If you sell him for slaughter rather than to a cheapskate, you're doing the market a favor, as he will NEED a bull at some point, and then he can choose to pay $2500 for a POS, or he'll just have to bite the bullet and actually pay asking price

 

[Son of Butch]

Told him would rather send him to slaughter for that than the keep him active, he's a registered purebred that has proven to be a light birth weight bull and we've sold several bulls and heifers sired by him so he's worth more than slaughter price. Doesn't seem too unreasonable right?

I think you had a legit buyer and talked him out of buying from you.
You have a bull to sell, he needs to buy a bull...should have been a simple transaction, right?
I suspect you didn't listen to what he was saying, and are choosing to blame him for not buying.
...OR did you say... I'd rather send him to slaughter than sell him to YOU.
Your tone and manner also influences perception between what you said and what he heard.
I don't begrudge anyone trying to negotiate their best price.
I calculate based on my best NET return options too.
But I try to put myself in his place and try to help him to find his own reasons to buy from me.
IF we can't reach an agreement and I really had no other option than sending him to slaughter, I would let him know when
and where, so that he could put in an extra bid or 3 and I would still be getting better than his true slaughter price.

It all depends on how you say things...
"When I'm with her, time stands still."
or
"She's got a face that could stop a clock."
Either way time is standing still...but one is offensive and the other romantic.

If you were being reasonable, then you wouldn't have to ask we who didn't hear the conversation if what you said
was unreasonable.
Don't feel too bad, a lot of farmers aren't very good at selling and even the best salesmen at one time or another have...
Been there done that. In sales, listening and problem solving are more effective than just telling someone something.

 

[Son of Butch]

By the way SPH...
I didn't mean any disrespect...the bull you were talking about is certainly worth more than slaughter price,
and I believe by asking the prospective buyer the right questions and listening to his answers it shouldn't be
any problem to help him arrive at the same conclusion and that he was actually getting a real good deal...
by 'letting him buy' a bull of this quality, rather than it being 'sold to him.'

 

[SPH]

By the way SPH...
I didn't mean any disrespect...the bull you were talking about is certainly worth more than slaughter price,
and I believe by asking the prospective buyer the right questions and listening to his answers it shouldn't be
any problem to help him arrive at the same conclusion and that he was actually getting a real good deal...
by 'letting him buy' a bull of this quality, rather than it being 'sold to him.'

I will clarify that is not how it went down. He inquired if we had any more of our yearling bulls left which we sold out of so we mentioned we would sell him our 4 year old herd sire if he was interested. We plan to actively market this bull soon once he's out of the pasture in a few weeks. He asked how much we wanted so we quoted him a price and all he responded with was "too pricey." Our next question was how much too pricey and he just said $1000 so the last interaction with him was explaining that the price he was looking to pay for a bull is the same price we could get by sending him to slaughter and we would rather send him to slaughter at that price than keep him active. Also told him to check back with us this winter when we will have a new set of yearling bulls for sale that might interest him. Never said we wouldn't sell to him, just stated for that it would take more than slaughter price to sell him as an active bull. He never countered back, he could have countered back to somewhere in the middle and possibly struck a deal but it was pretty obvious based on his responses he wasn't willing to pay the going rate for a herd bull outside of a sale barn price.

 

[greybeard]

Tire kicker.

 

[wacocowboy]

I gets old dealing with people who don't know prices. Was selling some pairs father and son came to look at them son seemed to know prices and was willing to pay father just kept low balling and trashing my cows and I wasn't way over priced right around the price at one of the local sale barns. I have a very short temper and that old man about burned the whole fuse glad they left when they did. Had another guy come out he looked at them kinda balked at the price showed him the prices at the sale barn and he took 4 pairs home. When I go look at cattle I have a few rules 1:never trash another mans animals look them over if they are trash just politely say you are going to keep looking shake his hand and walk away 2: don't low ball go in knowing what the local market is and be willing to pay around there. I will negotiate a lil but I am not going to ask a man to take a $1000 less than market price.

 

[FlyingLSimmentals]

Wacocowboy, If everyone was like you and me private treaty sales of the farm would be so much nicer. SPH, I know how you feel some people are just asses. I've always kept it cool on my end and try and help as much as I can, because they are the prospective customers but sometimes I feel like boiling over on them. Some producers will never get it a breeding bull should be worth a bit more than a slaughter bull, if not no one should be raising any.

 

[wacocowboy]

So true Flying. You sound like me they start chewing on your nerves and it is all you can do not to tell them off I never was very good with customer service lol. I know a many of ranchers who don't want to pay up for a bull heck you are getting 1200-1500 for your calves you can at least pay 2500 for your bull but they still want to buy them for 1500-2000.

 

[Nesikep]

I don't know if it's *real* ranchers that don't want to pay... They know what going prices are, and (most) value good genetics, etc.. The tire kickers are the wannabes, probably with less cows than the one bull could service. The same people probably have a whole whack of useless horses, and those are the guys I get here buying hay.. The year the alfalfa does well, they want grass hay, the year I have an AWESOME timothy hay crop, they want 100% alfalfa.. there's no pleasing them. It's been about a month of one guy saying he's going to come and pick up 60 bales... well he's been here before but asked for directions again earlier this week, I gave him my home phone number so he could call me when he's coming.. I got an email last night (that I just read tonight) asking me for my phone number again,... So dollars to doughnuts says he's not coming this weekend either.. Next weekend I'm not here, and after that there's going to be other hay stacked in front.

I feel y'alls frustration with people!

 

[greybeard]

So true Flying. You sound like me they start chewing on your nerves and it is all you can do not to tell them off I never was very good with customer service lol. I know a many of ranchers who don't want to pay up for a bull heck you are getting 1200-1500 for your calves you can at least pay 2500 for your bull but they still want to buy them for 1500-2000.

$2500 is a bargain nowadays.
This ain't 2012..

 

[JWBrahman]

I don't know if it's *real* ranchers that don't want to pay... They know what going prices are, and (most) value good genetics, etc.. The tire kickers are the wannabes, probably with less cows than the one bull could service. The same people probably have a whole whack of useless horses, and those are the guys I get here buying hay.. The year the alfalfa does well, they want grass hay, the year I have an AWESOME timothy hay crop, they want 100% alfalfa.. there's no pleasing them. It's been about a month of one guy saying he's going to come and pick up 60 bales... well he's been here before but asked for directions again earlier this week, I gave him my home phone number so he could call me when he's coming.. I got an email last night (that I just read tonight) asking me for my phone number again,... So dollars to doughnuts says he's not coming this weekend either.. Next weekend I'm not here, and after that there's going to be other hay stacked in front.

I feel y'alls frustration with people!

You have it backwards Nesi. The "real" ranchers who rely strictly on cattle for their income tend to be the ones with the worst stock here. You find a hobby rancher with a good day job and every last animal in that herd is topnotch. The "real" ranchers think their bull that was worth $1500 last year is now a $5000 herd sire. Many of the CT members who do the most complaining about Hobby Ranchers have the worst stock for sale at the highest prices. Personally, I just do not trust a man who never had to work outside of cattle. :2cents:

A lot of the real ranchers with the big herds follow the same business model:
Buy 300 Sale Barn Special half starved cows with calves.
Buy ten cheap Charolais bulls.
Make money to continue the operation.

Something to think about for those who do not like talking with people...
If you don't like people asking you how much a bull costs why do you sell bulls?

 

[Nesikep]

I guess it changes depending on where you live!

I just don't like people who 'agree' on the price, and pretty much have the animal in the trailer when they lowball you some more. You don't go to a porsche dealer looking for something with a Ford Festiva price tag