So please tell me, who's getting rich on the cow?

[Travlr]

But chickens and turkeys carry salmonella

There are about 2,000 strains of salmonella and cattle are only affected by ten. Most chicken litter is high in digestible wasted feed and not contaminated with any type of salmonella that can infect a cow.

It does seem... unsavory to feed poop to cattle... but if you ask them, they don't see a problem.

 

[Warren Allison]

Same here, sometimes less. I've caught hell on here for saying this, but 5-575 gets you the best dollars to pounds for lower input around here. The hit gets bigger on heifers.

Here, 450-500 lbs is when you wean them in the trailer going to the sale.

 

[Silver]

Here, 450-500 lbs is when you wean them in the trailer going to the sale.

Here, a cow that only weans a 450-500 lb calf gets on the trailer as well.

 

[farmerjan]

You ever read the fine print on the "lean deli ham" you are buying?
I am not saying that everything in the modern way of farming is wonderful. There were many many hands involved in the harvesting all the years ago before all the machinery and chemicals. Crop failures were common. People lived much shorter life spans overall... are you willing to go back to times before vaccines that stopped the massive number of deaths from things like measles, small pox and such? Pneumonia? Not being able to get an operation for something like a bypass... or like my knee replacements????

Ladybugs do kill some pests, I use several types of predatory wasps in the garden.... but they don't control some of the fungus' that plants get. I hand pick tomato worms... try doing that on 10 acres of tomato plants. Ever work for hours in the hot sun hoeing corn when a 1/2 hour of a tractor will do what took you 4-8 hours to do???
Do you grow all your own food? What happens when one crop fails.. when grasshoppers or locusts come in and devour it in one hour???
Every single one of us on here has had a crop fail at some time. Many use minimal amounts of chemicals because we care about what we eat and what our animals eat. You make choices and some of them are based on the wallet.....
I agree there are too many people in some places... but there are also too many that don't want to put on overalls and go out and work in the hot sun too....
And the ones "over populating" the earth do not have a social consciousness to take care of their own, or to stop at 2 kids or are willing to NOT take government handouts... how are you going to control that??? Maybe sterilization???? Oh but that will infringe on their rights to procreate and do what they want and then let some others, like those of us that do work, contribute to their welfare...

 

[Warren Allison]

There are about 2,000 strains of salmonella and cattle are only affected by ten. Most chicken litter is high in digestible wasted feed and not contaminated with any type of salmonella that can infect a cow.

It does seem... unsavory to feed poop to cattle... but if you ask them, they don't see a problem.

I have a neighbor that got the contract to haul off the old mash from the Budweiser brewery that opened up here in 1989. At that time, he had chicken houses and ran about 1500 acres of cow-calf as well. He always cut silage...said he promised himself as a boy growing up that he'd never haul hay again once he left his daddy's house. He converted over to I guess what you'd call a conditioning operation. People would wean their calves and send them to his place for a while...don't remember how long... and then he'd send them to a feed lot in Oklahoma. Any how, he also cleaned out other people's chicken houses, and he fed these cattle chicken litter, beer mash and silage mixed together. He also sold that beer mash to other people, too.

Chicken houses are big business here in north Ga, A lot of people who have them, also have some cattle, and they feed the litter to them.

 

[Warren Allison]

Here, a cow that only weans a 450-500 lb calf gets on the trailer as well.

How bizarre. I guess the weight of the calf when you wean it is up to the owner? You will sell a cow if you pull a calf off when it reaches 500 lbs?!!! How is that a problem with the cow?!!!

 

[farmerjan]

Different areas, different cattle. Many cattle up north, like where Silver is, wean calves in the 6-800 wts... cattle do differently in the northern climates... they are a different type cattle.

 

[burroughs85]

T

You ever read the fine print on the "lean deli ham" you are buying?
I am not saying that everything in the modern way of farming is wonderful. There were many many hands involved in the harvesting all the years ago before all the machinery and chemicals. Crop failures were common. People lived much shorter life spans overall... are you willing to go back to times before vaccines that stopped the massive number of deaths from things like measles, small pox and such? Pneumonia? Not being able to get an operation for something like a bypass... or like my knee replacements????

Ladybugs do kill some pests, I use several types of predatory wasps in the garden.... but they don't control some of the fungus' that plants get. I hand pick tomato worms... try doing that on 10 acres of tomato plants. Ever work for hours in the hot sun hoeing corn when a 1/2 hour of a tractor will do what took you 4-8 hours to do???
Do you grow all your own food? What happens when one crop fails.. when grasshoppers or locusts come in and devour it in one hour???
Every single one of us on here has had a crop fail at some time. Many use minimal amounts of chemicals because we care about what we eat and what our animals eat. You make choices and some of them are based on the wallet.....
I agree there are too many people in some places... but there are also too many that don't want to put on overalls and go out and work in the hot sun too....
And the ones "over populating" the earth do not have a social consciousness to take care of their own, or to stop at 2 kids or are willing to NOT take government handouts... how are you going to control that??? Maybe sterilization???? Oh but that will infringe on their rights to procreate and do what they want and then let some others, like those of us that do work, contribute to their welfare...

The deli ham I buy from Walmart is:

Smithfield, Cooked Boneless Hickory Smoked Quarter Sliced Ham, 97% Fat Free, 3.5 lb

Ingredients: Cured With: Water, Dextrose, Contains 2% Or Less of: Salt, Potassium Lactate, Sodium Phosphates, Sodium Diacetate, Sodium Erythorbate, Sodium Nitrite.

Nutrition facts
Refer to the product label for full dietary information, which may be available as an alternative product image.
84g serving size

Amount per serving: Calories 90

Amount per serving	% Daily Value*
Total Fat 2.5g	4%
Saturated Fat1g	5%
Trans Fat0g
Cholesterol 35Mg	12%
Sodium 740mg	31%
Total Carbohydrate 5g	2%
Dietary Fiber0g	0%
Sugars3g
Protein 13g
Vitamin A	0%
Vitamin C	2%
Calcium0	0%
Iron	4%

* The % Daily Value (DV) tells you how much a nutrient in a serving of food contributes to a daily diet.

---

Calories per gram:
Fat 9 • Carbohydrate 4 • Protein 4




Yes, there have been both good and bad aspects of human existence all throughout world history. I don't want to sweat without the comforts of air conditioning.

 

[Ky hills]

@farmerjan I would also speculate that the folks who haven't wanted to put on overalls and work in the hot sun are as much or more responsible for why things are the way they are now food wise and every other way too. People want want food as cheap and easy as they can get it. That means large scale production and highly processed and preserved.
I think everybody on here that are or have been directly involved with agriculture understand what it is to work long hours in hot, cold, wet, dry, conditions and all that that entails.
It's sad that many throughout the country no longer can relate to that or even have some understanding of what it takes.
We were a part of the local farmers market for a couple years. The bull of customers would walk right by the produce vendors and head straight for the ones with baked goods, ice cream, or fresh cook sausage biscuits etc.
With the exception of corn, tomatoes, beans, only a few regular customers sought out other things that had to be cooked ie squash, greens, potatoes, lots of folks thought that a cushaw was a gourd.
The messaging is being lost as far educating the public about agriculture.
It is vital to us all, yet the anti ag crowd has made enough inroads to be the voices that are most often heard.

 

[burroughs85]

Back to that deli roast beef at about $15.50/pound out of my pocket.

It would be interesting to see who got how much cut of the money out of that pound of meat. Somebody had to raise a cow. Somebody had to kill a cow. Somebody had to transport a cow. Somebody had to butcher a cow. Somebody had to grow the spices. Somebody had to transport spices. Somebody had to package and label spices. Somebody had to season and slow roast some meat. Somebody had to package and label some meat. Somebody had to transport some packaged meat. The retailer had to acquire the meat from a supplier. The supplier got a cut. The retailer to a cut of the profit somewhere. Somebody along the line had to do something. Somebody always has to do something. It would be interesting to see how many hands were involved in the production of one pound of deli roast beef. One measly little pound from just one cow.

 

[Lee VanRoss]

How bizarre. I guess the weight of the calf when you wean it is up to the owner? You will sell a cow if you pull a calf off when it reaches 500 lbs?!!! How is that a problem with the cow?!!!

One way to avoid pulling calves is to cull any breeding stock from that family. Also use some common sense on bull selection.
Also if you sell a calf at 500# what is generating income from that pair for the remainder of the year?
A cow will NEVER recover profitablity from the loss of a calf.. If you want to name and keep her that is on you.

 

[burroughs85]

Back to that deli roast beef at about $15.50/pound out of my pocket.

It would be interesting to see who got how much cut of the money out of that pound of meat. Somebody had to raise a cow. Somebody had to kill a cow. Somebody had to transport a cow. Somebody had to butcher a cow. Somebody had to grow the spices. Somebody had to transport spices. Somebody had to package and label spices. Somebody had to season and slow roast some meat. Somebody had to package and label some meat. Somebody had to transport some packaged meat. The retailer had to acquire the meat from a supplier. The supplier got a cut. The retailer to a cut of the profit somewhere. Somebody along the line had to do something. Somebody always has to do something. It would be interesting to see how many hands were involved in the production of one pound of deli roast beef. One measly little pound from just one cow.

Revision after time to edit expired.

Back to that deli roast beef at about $15.50/pound out of my pocket.

It would be interesting to see who got how much cut of the money out of that pound of meat. Somebody had to raise a cow somewhere in the world and at some time. Somebody had to kill a cow somewhere in the world and at some time. Somebody had to transport a cow somewhere in the world and at some time. Somebody had to butcher a cow somewhere in the world and at some time. Somebody had to age the beef somewhere in the world and some time. Somebody had to grow the spice somewhere in the world and at some time. Somebody had to transport spices somewhere in the world and at some time. Somebody had to package and label spices somewhere in the world and at some time. Somebody had to season and slow roast some meat somewhere in the world and at some time. Somebody had to package and label the meat somewhere in the world and at some time. Somebody had to transport some packaged meat somewhere in the world and at some time. The retailer had to acquire the meat from a supplier somewhere in the world and at some time. The supplier got a cut somewhere in the world and at some time. The retailer got a cut of the profit somewhere in the world and at some time. Somebody along the line had to do something somewhere in the world and at some time. Somebody always has to do something somewhere in the world and at some time. It would be interesting to see how many hands were involved in the production of one pound of deli roast beef. One measly little pound from just one cow.

 

[farmerjan]

T

The deli ham I buy from Walmart is:

Smithfield, Cooked Boneless Hickory Smoked Quarter Sliced Ham, 97% Fat Free, 3.5 lb

Ingredients: Cured With: Water, Dextrose, Contains 2% Or Less of: Salt, Potassium Lactate, Sodium Phosphates, Sodium Diacetate, Sodium Erythorbate, Sodium Nitrite.

Nutrition facts
Refer to the product label for full dietary information, which may be available as an alternative product image.
84g serving size

Amount per serving: Calories 90

Amount per serving	% Daily Value*
Total Fat 2.5g	4%
Saturated Fat1g	5%
Trans Fat0g
Cholesterol 35Mg	12%
Sodium 740mg	31%
Total Carbohydrate 5g	2%
Dietary Fiber0g	0%
Sugars3g
Protein 13g
Vitamin A	0%
Vitamin C	2%
Calcium0	0%
Iron	4%

* The % Daily Value (DV) tells you how much a nutrient in a serving of food contributes to a daily diet.

---

Calories per gram:
Fat 9 • Carbohydrate 4 • Protein 4




Yes, there have been both good and bad aspects of human existence all throughout world history. I don't want to sweat without the comforts of air conditioning.

You realize that deli ham did not exist before "modern times" ? You talk about natural and organic; look at the additives in the deli ham... preservatives, flavor enhancers and such. So if you are wanting to go back to more natural ways and means of the Amish, then you should also examine all the things you are now eating....

I do not have air conditioning in the house. I cannot take the sudden temp changes going in and out with working mainly outside in all types of weather. There are times it is nice to go into it and cool off but I don't want to stay in it for long.. I prefer more natural ways to get cooled off and I live in a climate where I do not have to deal with the relentless heat like further south.
What I am trying to point out is that although you are talking about how we should use more natural ways of farming; manures (which we use alot of here) and ladybugs for some pest control; you are not willing to give up any of the modern conveniences like AC to go "back " to the simpler ways of doing things. And you do not have any idea of what it is to do without or to suffer from deprivation when things fall apart. Most of us on here that are older, and some of the younger ones that grew up "harder" know what I mean....

 

[Silver]

How bizarre. I guess the weight of the calf when you wean it is up to the owner? You will sell a cow if you pull a calf off when it reaches 500 lbs?!!! How is that a problem with the cow?!!!

They have a job. They have 210 days to turn grass into beef. Those that don't do there job well get fired. Not very complicated really.

 

[Silver]

Different areas, different cattle. Many cattle up north, like where Silver is, wean calves in the 6-800 wts... cattle do differently in the northern climates... they are a different type cattle.

If I'm not mistaken Ron (Bright Raven), Gizmom, Jean and more also wean calves that size. Two of the aforementioned are wayyy down south. I believe Ken does it in Australia.

 

[farmerjan]

If I'm not mistaken Ron (Bright Raven), Gizmom, Jean and more also wean calves that size. Two of the aforementioned are wayyy down south. I believe Ken does it in Australia.

You are right, there are many that wean bigger calves like you do. Some also have simmental blood... which is not saying there is anything wrong with it. It also depends on the size cow you are starting with and the breed. We run cows that average 1100 lbs... don't want real big cows... we wean in the 450-550 wt range... it fits the market demand here also. That is one of the biggest reasons; a calf over 6-650 gets docked so much that it is not worth the extra time on the cow.... we can run a few more cows, wean calves at a little lighter weight that the market pays best prices for... so have more calves to sell...
Everyone has to find what niche their operation fits into. We are going to start buying some odd ball 650-750 wts and try running a group on pasture to sell in the 9 wt range and see how they do for us money wise... with basically only grass inputs...trying to do a few things outside the box to see if we can come up with a little more profit against the inputs. Buying these bull calves at a $.15-.30 discount over steers is working for us to put together some weaned and vacc ones to sell in groups.
As a rule though, northern cattle tend to be bigger - as in heavier bodied - and tend to wean bigger calves. They also seem to put on weight better... see it with the deer herds also... colder weather/winters seem to produce more "big bucks" than the southern deer.

 

[burroughs85]

You realize that deli ham did not exist before "modern times" ? You talk about natural and organic; look at the additives in the deli ham... preservatives, flavor enhancers and such. So if you are wanting to go back to more natural ways and means of the Amish, then you should also examine all the things you are now eating....

I do not have air conditioning in the house. I cannot take the sudden temp changes going in and out with working mainly outside in all types of weather. There are times it is nice to go into it and cool off but I don't want to stay in it for long.. I prefer more natural ways to get cooled off and I live in a climate where I do not have to deal with the relentless heat like further south.
What I am trying to point out is that although you are talking about how we should use more natural ways of farming; manures (which we use alot of here) and ladybugs for some pest control; you are not willing to give up any of the modern conveniences like AC to go "back " to the simpler ways of doing things. And you do not have any idea of what it is to do without or to suffer from deprivation when things fall apart. Most of us on here that are older, and some of the younger ones that grew up "harder" know what I mean....

I did not realize there was anything bad in deli ham. The pig farmers don't cure it anyway. It's a double edged sword. We need mega farms to feed the masses but the healthfulness of such foods produced the modern mega way might be questionable. We will starve to death without foods though. I will either have to starve or take chances with cancer from foods. I use deli ham regularly with my eggs because I'm, on a fat-restricted diet. I can't eat bacon or sausage everyday for breakfast. It's a periodic treat. The pre-sliced/pre-cooked deli ham is convenient to use and ready to brown on the griddle in the morning. I use it for omelets too. It's also much cheaper than bacon pound per pound. I once got "uncured ham" at a Cracker Barrel restaurant. It was yucky. I got cured ham as a replacement and the waitress didn't charge me extra. Ham has to be cured to taste good.

 

[burroughs85]

.....

 

[Silver]

As a rule though, northern cattle tend to be bigger - as in heavier bodied - and tend to wean bigger calves. They also seem to put on weight better...

There may be something to that. However, even up North most peoples calves do not average 600 lbs plus. It might come as a surprise to many but there is an incredible amount of management (both genetics and grass) that goes into it. They don't get big just because they are up North. SAV angus calves don't get big just because of the herd letters stamped in their ears. That's my rant for the day.

 

[Warren Allison]

They have a job. They have 210 days to turn grass into beef. Those that don't do there job well get fired. Not very complicated really.

Who the hell said it took 210 days to get to 450-500lbs?!!! That is 7 months!!! Even our Corrientes, bred to black bulls, would have calves 500 to nearly 550 if we waited just 6 mos to wean them.. That is why bigger framed cows are preferred. It doesn't take as long for say, a Chi-Angus calf to reach that 450-500 size as an Angus calf.