Finally getting started

[wobbie1775]

I joined this forum 9 years ago trying to learn about raising cattle. @Rafter S even showed me around his place when I was stationed in Texas (thanks Rafter again for your hospitality). I just retired a few months ago from USMC and got some land Missouri. I know the stigma with longhorns but I got 13 of them because they were bred and cheap and delivered. So far, got 2 healthy calves on the ground and 1 bottle calf that seems to be suffering from a vitamin deficiency from the dam. One pic is a Beefmaster LH cross with her dam. One pic of the bottle calf in my living room. One pic of the Char LH cross and her dam. Thanks for all the advice over the years. Ill be culling out any of these old LH cows that have bad teeth and bad attitudes (or dont raise a calf) in exchange for some South Polls.

 

[Warren Allison]

I joined this forum 9 years ago trying to learn about raising cattle. @Rafter S even showed me around his place when I was stationed in Texas (thanks Rafter again for your hospitality). I just retired a few months ago from USMC and got some land Missouri. I know the stigma with longhorns but I got 13 of them because they were bred and cheap and delivered. So far, got 2 healthy calves on the ground and 1 bottle calf that seems to be suffering from a vitamin deficiency from the dam. One pic is a Beefmaster LH cross with her dam. One pic of the bottle calf in my living room. One pic of the Char LH cross and her dam. Thanks for all the advice over the years. Ill be culling out any of these old LH cows that have bad teeth and bad attitudes (or dont raise a calf) in exchange for some South Polls. View attachment 43099View attachment 43098View attachment 43100

They look more Corriente than LH to me, which is even better for raising beef crosses. Congratulations on your retirement, and thank you for your service.

 

[wobbie1775]

They look more Corriente than LH to me, which is even better for raising beef crosses. Congratulations on your retirement, and thank you for your service.

Yeah. I agree. I got a few that are no doubt LH, but many look Corriente. They were from a middle man so really who knows. Most of them aren't totally nuts so they may get to hang around for a while.

 

[greybeard]

Welcome back and Good Luck.
Semper Fi!

 

[wobbie1775]

Welcome back and Good Luck.
Semper Fi!

Thanks and Semper Fi Back!!!

 

[tex452]

I never had any calving problems with these type of cattle, even heifers bred to beef bulls.

 

[Hamiam]

Congratulations on your retirement. My husband retired from the Marines in 1999. Wishing you much success with your new herd.

 

[Mrcopier]

Thank you for your service!

 

[wobbie1775]

I never had any calving problems with these type of cattle, even heifers bred to beef bulls.

I got the cow 3rd stage bred, so its unknown if she had complications on the last pregnancy or what the forage condition/mineral program was at her last place. I think she was vit A or selenium deficient. The calf's symptoms imply that abd she retained the placenta for at least 2 days. Not sure. She will be taking a ride to town as soon as I get my hands on a trailer though.

 

[farmerjan]

As with everyone else... first off thank you for your service to our country and all of us... Congrats for the retirement.
Good to start with some animals that were priced to where you could get into them reasonably. That is where you will make money... starting out right.
You are being very sensible and practical the way you are thinking and going. With the cattle market being so crazy right now, you should be fine.
If you haven't yet, give them all a good worming since they came through a middleman. Get their systems "cleaned out" so they can start off in a position to start gaining weight and making milk with spring grasses coming on.
Watch your markets in the area to see what sells better, and use a bull to help give you what you can sell better....
If they raise a baby and do a good job, the bull will improve what you have to sell.

They don't sell worth a darn here, but I like horns on the cattle.... and my one "pasture ornament" longhorn just dropped a calf for her 5th lactation, and she keeps all the coyotes and stray dogs out of the field so I am tickled pink with her.... and bred to a black angus bull every time (3 different bulls, 2 times to one, 2 times to another, and this one from a new bull) and the previous 4 times have all been polled... haven't gotten close enough to this one yet... she is not mean but I don't bother her for a couple days so she will always trust me to come right up for some grain....

Best of luck on your venture....

 

[wobbie1775]

As with everyone else... first off thank you for your service to our country and all of us... Congrats for the retirement.
Good to start with some animals that were priced to where you could get into them reasonably. That is where you will make money... starting out right.
You are being very sensible and practical the way you are thinking and going. With the cattle market being so crazy right now, you should be fine.
If you haven't yet, give them all a good worming since they came through a middleman. Get their systems "cleaned out" so they can start off in a position to start gaining weight and making milk with spring grasses coming on.
Watch your markets in the area to see what sells better, and use a bull to help give you what you can sell better....
If they raise a baby and do a good job, the bull will improve what you have to sell.

They don't sell worth a darn here, but I like horns on the cattle.... and my one "pasture ornament" longhorn just dropped a calf for her 5th lactation, and she keeps all the coyotes and stray dogs out of the field so I am tickled pink with her.... and bred to a black angus bull every time (3 different bulls, 2 times to one, 2 times to another, and this one from a new bull) and the previous 4 times have all been polled... haven't gotten close enough to this one yet... she is not mean but I don't bother her for a couple days so she will always trust me to come right up for some grain....

Best of luck on your venture....

I am interested to see how the horns play out. With Charolais and Beefmaster as the "known" sires, I am sure there will be other sires sprinkled in....but it will be neat to see what calves end up with regarding horns.

 

[sstterry]

I got the cow 3rd stage bred, so its unknown if she had complications on the last pregnancy or what the forage condition/mineral program was at her last place. I think she was vit A or selenium deficient. The calf's symptoms imply that abd she retained the placenta for at least 2 days. Not sure. She will be taking a ride to town as soon as I get my hands on a trailer though.

Your local Co-op might rent trailers. I am told our local does.

 

[4hfarms]

My first 3 were from a farm that crossed anything.
A corriente/limo
a herford/ LH
A holstein/LH

I crossed those calves to a friend's LH bull, then again to another of his the next year. The bull last and this year is red with tiger brindle We are getting LH of all colors. Red from red, black from black and mixed from mixed. Makes for a pretty pasture, not a dull moment! Enjoy that they are so different from other breeds.
We have a neighbor with Angus across the street down the street, no one stopping to watch them. People block the road( small country back road a few miles from town) to sit out front to watch ours from the road. People have been known to park on the other side of our gate to have lunch sometimes. Small town life! We are now known as the longhorns in the area. We allow people to do family or wedding pics etc. We see pics of our cows from other people/businesses all the time. Makes us smile...

 

[Warren Allison]

I am interested to see how the horns play out. With Charolais and Beefmaster as the "known" sires, I am sure there will be other sires sprinkled in....but it will be neat to see what calves end up with regarding horns.

A lot of polled Char bulls, and even more polled BM bulls, can be heterozygous for polled. So potentially , half the calves they sire from Criolo cattle can be horned. Or scurred. When you look at the info on registered bulls, like in a sales catalog, etc., Char, BM, Black Hereford, Simmental, will list if the bull is homo polled or not. Where as this info is not needed.... and therefor not listed...on the info for registered Angus or Brangus. Dunno what you paid for those cows, but right now, you could take those calves to the sale, and they'd bring $600-$800 (for the black one, if it was healthy) for bottle calves.

That black one...was it from one of your more LH- type cows or one of your more Corrientes-type cows? For the past 28 years or so, I have calved out 100 or more Corriente cows and heifers, and have never had to pull a calf...or have a calf rejected...or had one lose a calf...or not have enough milk. I am curious as to what went wrong with that one.

What kind of bull are you going to breed these back to? If you don't have one yet, I would recommend Angus, Brangus, or homo for polled and black SimmAngus or homo for polled and black Simm.

Lastly, why South Poll? Nothing wrong with them...just curious as to what attracts you to them.

 

[wobbie1775]

A lot of polled Char bulls, and even more polled BM bulls, can be heterozygous for polled. So potentially , half the calves they sire from Criolo cattle can be horned. Or scurred. When you look at the info on registered bulls, like in a sales catalog, etc., Char, BM, Black Hereford, Simmental, will list if the bull is homo polled or not. Where as this info is not needed.... and therefor not listed...on the info for registered Angus or Brangus. Dunno what you paid for those cows, but right now, you could take those calves to the sale, and they'd bring $600-$800 (for the black one, if it was healthy) for bottle calves.

That black one...was it from one of your more LH- type cows or one of your more Corrientes-type cows? For the past 28 years or so, I have calved out 100 or more Corriente cows and heifers, and have never had to pull a calf...or have a calf rejected...or had one lose a calf...or not have enough milk. I am curious as to what went wrong with that one.

What kind of bull are you going to breed these back to? If you don't have one yet, I would recommend Angus, Brangus, or homo for polled and black SimmAngus or homo for polled and black Simm.

Lastly, why South Poll? Nothing wrong with them...just curious as to what attracts you to them.

Not a great pic of the mom, but I would say she's a corriente-type. Why SP? I think there is opportunity there; I want the smaller frame and dare I say; I believe the breed sales pitch on "heat-tolerance" and fescue adaptability. I also think with proper culling/management you can get those things from many breeds, but it appears that many SP are already there. I also want to get involved with the breed organization, and SP seems small enough (compared to others) that there is still space for grassroots folks to be involved (marketing, breed growth, seed stock production). The breed org HQ is a couple towns north of my house so that is one for the win column also.

FWIW, I don't think there is anything wrong with those other breeds; everyone has it's place and is exists for a reason. I have been to the C.A.B. annual conference and met many of the huge Black Angus breeders. 100% of them told me I will go broke getting into cattle; one even offered to give me mama cows just so I can learn how fast ill go broke even with a hand out. They were all very nice and just trying to be helpful. On the contrary, 100% of the SP cattlemen I have spoken to have said it is a profitable breed when managed to survive on grass with daily rotations. Maybe I am just gullible !!

All that to say, I am still learning and not concrete on any plans yet...just trying to learn. I have given myself 6 years to get the cattle to the point where they can support me quitting my town-job. That will put me at 45 years old and farming full time; that's the underlying intent behind all of this.

 

[Warren Allison]

Not a great pic of the mom, but I would say she's a corriente-type. Why SP? I think there is opportunity there; I want the smaller frame and dare I say; I believe the breed sales pitch on "heat-tolerance" and fescue adaptability. I also think with proper culling/management you can get those things from many breeds, but it appears that many SP are already there. I also want to get involved with the breed organization, and SP seems small enough (compared to others) that there is still space for grassroots folks to be involved (marketing, breed growth, seed stock production). The breed org HQ is a couple towns north of my house so that is one for the win column also.

FWIW, I don't think there is anything wrong with those other breeds; everyone has it's place and is exists for a reason. I have been to the C.A.B. annual conference and met many of the huge Black Angus breeders. 100% of them told me I will go broke getting into cattle; one even offered to give me mama cows just so I can learn how fast ill go broke even with a hand out. They were all very nice and just trying to be helpful. On the contrary, 100% of the SP cattlemen I have spoken to have said it is a profitable breed when managed to survive on grass with daily rotations. Maybe I am just gullible !!

All that to say, I am still learning and not concrete on any plans yet...just trying to learn. I have given myself 6 years to get the cattle to the point where they can support me quitting my town-job. That will put me at 45 years old and farming full time; that's the underlying intent behind all of this.

Is the calf in the calf in the pic the one you were bottle feeding in your house? You were able to return it to its momma? Yes, she looks more Corr to me than Longhorn.

Teddy Gentry developed these South Polls on his farm not far from me, outside of Lafayette and Chattanooga, in a valley called " The Pocket". About the time he got them going good, CAB was taking off like gang busters. A lot of people bought them and bred them to Angus bulls, improving the marbling and tenderness even more. Had a friend in Fla that did the same thing only with Brangus bulls. Don't know how hot and humid it is in your part of MO, but don't see ay downside to using them in your commercial herd on black bulls. Or are you thinking of being a South Poll seed stock producer? Since there aren't that many around, this could prove lucrative for you as well. I am sure you have looked into it....what will you have to pay for registered South Poll cows or heifers? Are there breeders near you in Mo?

 

[wobbie1775]

Is the calf in the calf in the pic the one you were bottle feeding in your house? You were able to return it to its momma? Yes, she looks more Corr to me than Longhorn.

Teddy Gentry developed these South Polls on his farm not far from me, outside of Lafayette and Chattanooga, in a valley called " The Pocket". About the time he got them going good, CAB was taking off like gang busters. A lot of people bought them and bred them to Angus bulls, improving the marbling and tenderness even more. Had a friend in Fla that did the same thing only with Brangus bulls. Don't know how hot and humid it is in your part of MO, but don't see ay downside to using them in your commercial herd on black bulls. Or are you thinking of being a South Poll seed stock producer? Since there aren't that many around, this could prove lucrative for you as well. I am sure you have looked into it....what will you have to pay for registered South Poll cows or heifers? Are there breeders near you in Mo?

That is mama and calf on day 1 (old pic). Mama has seen calf thru the fence but its been 18 days or so, so I think she has mentally moved on from trying to be mama to this calf.

Im not sure yet what exactly the plan is. There are a few folks near me who are into the SP breed but I don't know if their management aligns with my plan. I want cows that need grass, mineral, and water to survive. Critters that have been on grain look good sometimes but I don't want animals that 'need' that crutch.

I am not sure how "big" we will get but I think, for the first few years, I want to produce groups of similar looking critters and just market to the sale barn, while maybe pulling a few off to be custom fed at a neighboring place. And maybe after we have 'bred up' a few years I can start buying registered SP stock. I would say, in my area, I'm confident that its almost impossible to find registered cows. I'm sure there may be a couple but the SP crowd seems to hold on for dear life when they get some. Supply does not keep up with demand (in my opinion). Some bull options around but that leads back to the management; I need to go check these folks out and make sure they manage similar to how I expect to manage.

 

[Warren Allison]

I want cows that need grass, mineral, and water to survive. Critters that have been on grain look good sometimes but I don't want animals that 'need' that crutch.

Well, you have some now that are the best there is at that! Mine don't even have lush grass pasture..they thrive on weeds, broom sage, Johnson grass, honeysuckle, briars and Kudzu. They winter on harvested peanut, soy bean, corn, sunflower, sorghum, millet and cotton residue However, Kudzu will test 25% protein....but I wanna keep that a secret!

What you want out of a cow, is exactly what Gentry developed the South Poll to do. I will keep an eye open for SPs around here, and let you know what I find out.