Replacement females???

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Those bought heifers and bought bred heifers didn't just fall off the heifer tree one sunny afternoon.

Somebody(s) somewhere, is spending the time and $$ to raise these heifers that others are buying. Those replacement 'stockpersons' are doing one of 2 things.
1.Making $$$$
or
2. going broke
and from what I've seen here at CT over the years, from the herd pictures, sales tickets, and personal testimony, I'd say it's the former.

From what I have seen over the years, I agree with it being the former. I have noticed that the price for replacements, private sale, doesn't really coincide with the price of beef heifers by the pound at the sale barns. Most have a price that is more or less fixed. Most have them sold before they are weaned. And most have a base of customers that buy from them each year. One guy I have dealt with the past 3-4 years, keeps a herd of about 250 fb Brahmas, and will breed them for whatever kind of f1 you want. He will use sexed semen, and breed you some br x Herf, br x black herf, br x Simm, br x Char, Br x Angus or breed them to a Brahma. ....whatever you want. If a man orders say, 20 Br x Herf, he will breed 22 or 23 of them, so sometimes he has 1-3 for sale that aren't pre-sold. At the end of the booking season, if he doesn't have 250 pre-sold, he uses sexed for male black Ang or Simm semen on whatever is left, to get some market steers to sell. And does 10 to sexed for male with Chiania semen, for a client that wants 8 a year to go to central America somewhere.

For annual customers, you will pay the price you started at. Someone that started with him 5 years ago at $1600, still pay $1600 every year, etc. I bought from him the first time in 2021... I think... at $1750, so that's what I would pay this year. . New customers this year are at either $2000 or $2500, I don't remember which. Most of the successful ones that I know, that have been in the business for a while, do it like this. There are some, that may have production sales, but you'd be more vulnerable to the going market prices that way. And I have seen some just at local cow sales. The seller or auctioneer will usually speak for them, and tell about them,. so they may bring the top dollar for heifers that day, but this, to me, would be the riskiest, especially in down market times.
 
So your saying that what is possible and profitable for you at your location, will be the same everywhere?
No what I'm saying is replacing maternal traits with those focused strictly on terminal growth isn't a good thing.
Is this controversial around here?
 
The likelihood of a heifer being bred to perform in your conditions is higher if she comes from your own herd than from somewhere else unless you know where they come from
Well here, unless you're breeding to a charlois bull you're calves aren't topping any market.

So unless you have magic cows that can throw big yellow steers and moderate feminine red females, it's all smoke blowing
My Gelbvieh crosses have done pretty good, Big yellow/red steers and moderate, feminine females IMG_7080sm caddy Chroma.jpg

Full brother #1
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Full brother #2
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Full brother #3, when he was sold as a butcher bull at about 7 years old he topped the sale
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Full sister with her last heifer, she wasn't the prettiest cow but she was a great producer, and her calves produced well too
IMG_20221003_114025_398 Prada Kardi .jpg
 
No what I'm saying is replacing maternal traits with those focused strictly on terminal growth isn't a good thing.
Is this controversial around here?

I never said chase the ends of either spectrum.

You were talking about being happy with average.

I'm saying why not try to shoot for above average, or raise your expectation of average, without sacrificing on the other end.

I NEVER said chase the extremes of any one trait.
 
My average retained heifers can produce a desirable steer, and calve in a 45 season.

But my above average retained heifers can produce a desirable steer that is heavier and calves out in the same 45 day window.

So again why would I shoot for average, when I can aim higher?
Your environment can carry the heavier producing cow. Go for it.
 
Where do all of these mythical producers live and how would they survive at $1600 a head? Would the first customer not take them all?
How would they survive?!!! Put the pipe down, Hoss. That would be $2.70 a pound for 600 lb heifers, and eared heifers at that. No one is getting that at the sale barn for even all beef black heifers! Why wouldn't he take them all? Well , it would indeed have to be a mythical ranch that had to replace 250 cows a year, alright. To have 250 weaned and 250 18 mos old heifers at a time, you'd have to have 500 acres of unused prime pasture. That's about $25 mil in this part of Ga. He gets about 12 a year, I think. I doubt the other 238 cows would be available for him to get more off of, even if he did want them all. .He is not the only annual repeat customer. No offense meant, just curious based on your question, but do you even have cattle?
 
This is why it's so important to remember every location is different. I have 500 acres of pasture, with multiple houses and barns on it and have less that 1/25 of that $25 mil invested.
Yes. It has gone crazy around here the past few years. Agriculture of any kind is about done in the counties north of Atlanta that I-75 runs through. All the land is going for houses, factories, and these giant, several acres big storage facilities...especially on land that butts up to 75. Probably in my lifetime, you won't be able to tell where Atlanta ends and Chattanooga begins.
 
Are you now saying that $1600 gets a 600 lb feeder heifer? I thought you were talking about replacements AI bred to there choice of bulls. Sometimes your posts are hard to follow.
 
I never said chase the ends of either spectrum.

You were talking about being happy with average.

I'm saying why not try to shoot for above average, or raise your expectation of average, without sacrificing on the other end.

I NEVER said chase the extremes of any one trait.
When average can breed back, calve unassisted and raise a calf that hits 550-600 pounds in 200 days, I'll take average any day.
 
That 22% is high... except when you consider it's only 30 days. That's giving some of them only one cycle to get bred. I was inclined to cull brutally but at least gave them two chances with natural breeding. The first calf heifers breeding back seems low, too, at 15-20% not bred with the 45 day window.

Any ideas on why those numbers? Any efforts made to improve them, or are you satisfied that they work for you to weed out the weaker animals?
Neighbors are happy when all their heifers are bred…… in 90 days. Those that don't want to live here on our feeding program weed themselves out early. Best when they are young and worth more as feeder cattle than at 5 to 8 and lower in value.
Most on here relate to 60 and 90 day calving seasons and even give ol Bessie a second chance as a fall calver if she is empty for spring. Those excuses cost money and reduce uniformity, we don't keep employees if they don't give a day's work for a day's pay either.
Feed quality is first 'excuse' for higher open and late percentages, predators are second highest. Have you ever noticed a cow cycling and being bred when you are driving or moving them to a different pasture and then noticed she calved a cycle later next spring? Take that and have them being run by wolves or bears almost daily and it is amazing any breed at all.
 
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No what I'm saying is replacing maternal traits with those focused strictly on terminal growth isn't a good thing.
Is this controversial around here?
Most ranchers try to find a balance that suits them, so they aren't going to the extremes that would make your concerns true. And your concerns ARE true... but not for people that work their cattle to find a balance.
 
Neighbors are happy when all their heifers are bred…… in 90 days. Those that don't want to live here on our feeding program weed themselves out early. Best when they are young and worth more as feeder cattle than at 5 to 8 and lower in value.
Most on here relate to 60 and 90 day calving seasons and even give ol Bessie a second chance as a fall calver if she is empty for spring. Those excuses cost money and reduce uniformity, we don't keep employees if they don't give a day's work for a day's pay either.
I'm with you there... I never kept pets either.
 
I'm with you there... I never kept pets either.
There are a couple here. This old rip put my wife up the fence and went by the cut gate when we had a reduction sale so I could get a hip replaced in 2020. She was a cow already when she arrived on a load we bought in 2015. Should have loaded her and sold last fall but she isn't a problem cow and I'm wondering just how long it will take her to die! 😂😂IMG_3983.jpegIMG_1933.jpeg
 
Give me that average cow who brings a market calf year after year with good efficiency over someone's idea of a fancy cow that requires more, time more feed etc etc.
Average cows that make money year after year are what we should all want.
Old Ben Robert out on the Sweetwater here in Wyoming always said he would rather have two skinny cows than one fat one. He started with nothing and ended up with a ranch 30 miles wide by 90 miles long. He went from Shoshoni Wyoming almost to Casper, and almost to Wamsutter Wyoming. There was a sheep outfit in the area, and he hated sheep so bad that he had to buy out the whole sheep ranch in order to get rid of them.
 
There are a couple here. This old rip put my wife up the fence and went by the cut gate when we had a reduction sale so I could get a hip replaced in 2020. She was a cow already when she arrived on a load we bought in 2015. Should have loaded her and sold last fall but she isn't a problem cow and I'm wondering just how long it will take her to die! 😂😂View attachment 41638View attachment 41643
The thing is with those you wish would die never do, they are just two tough and onery. Dad had a mare that he tried to ride to death, but she was just to tough and outlasted him.
 

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