Replacement females???

[Caustic Burno]

What's your preference for obtaining replacement females? I have a small commercial herd. Mostly I've bought cows that have had a calf or two previously.

The problem that I run into most often with buying cows is that they seem to have been sold because they don't breed back promptly.

I like the idea of retaining my own heifers but then you have to keep them away from a bull and they don't generate any income for a couple years.

Just thought I'd see how some of you more experienced folks like to do it.

There is no advantage to raising replacement in a commercial herd.

 

[Logan52]

Caustic, You might be right the disadvantages outweigh the advantages in a commercial herd. You are wrong to say there is no advantage.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Caustic, You might be right the disadvantages outweigh the advantages in a commercial herd. You are wrong to say there is no advantage.

Not really it's about money not feeling good.

 

[Warren Allison]

Not really it's about money not feeling good.

There is no advantage to raising replacement in a commercial herd.

Oh, Lord! You gonna get the trolls stirred up again!

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

Not really it's about money not feeling good.

My pencil says retaining heifers from my own herd and having a high percentage remain in the herd after their 2nd calf, vs my experience of culling a high % of purchased heifers says that retaining is better financially.

 

[anewcomer]

Chevy, what does your pencil say about buying bred cows versus bred heifers?

 

[Caustic Burno]

Chevy, what does your pencil say about buying bred cows versus bred heifers?

Retained heifer cost two years of inputs and the dam returns nothing for two years to the operation.
That's a lot of money.
Secondly the retained heifer has no value to the IRS except inputs or sold.
The bought replacement can be depreciated along with inputs and has value if she dies to the IRS.
I really wouldn't want to reduce sales in this market.
Actually now is the time to purchase replacements in the up cycle IMO.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

Bred cows are better. But finding good cows that can thrive in my climate longterm is tough.

Looking at records about 81% of my retained heifers are still in the herd @5 years.

Looking at years I've bought bred heifers only about 38% are in my herd @5 years.

I attribute most of that to a climate that has harsh winter, and grows lots and lots of mediocre quality forage during the growing season. Selecting from my herd means selecting from cows that already thrive here, animals from even 50 miles away are adapted to much better forage and 1/2 the winter we have.

 

[simme]

I read in this thread that a person can buy better quality replacements at lower cost than retaining their own. I am testing that theory. Last week, I purchased 2 bred heifers. Been about 20 years since purchasing any females. In about 3 years, I will have a good idea of the quality difference. As far as cost, if the purchased ones are lower cost than the home raised, then that cap that came with them cost me 4 figures.

 

[Travlr]

Retained heifer cost two years of inputs and the dam returns nothing for two years to the operation.
That's a lot of money.
Secondly the retained heifer has no value to the IRS except inputs or sold.
The bought replacement can be depreciated along with inputs and has value if she dies to the IRS.
I really wouldn't want to reduce sales in this market.
Actually now is the time to purchase replacements in the up cycle IMO.

I'm not too sure about your arithmetic. On the back side, every cow you retain has a 9 month cost to keeping her. How would the heifer be any different during those 9 months?

The only added expense I see is the time and money invested between birth and breeding... which is canceled out depending on how much a replacement animal costs. Those 15 months may or may not be comparable.

Granted heifers have their own issues, but some people manage theirs to succeed where others haven't figured it out. I'd certainly rather calve out heifers I raised and bred myself rather than buying younger bred animals that I know very little about.

 

[Heronfish]

Retained heifer cost two years of inputs and the dam returns nothing for two years to the operation.
That's a lot of money.
Secondly the retained heifer has no value to the IRS except inputs or sold.
The bought replacement can be depreciated along with inputs and has value if she dies to the IRS.
I really wouldn't want to reduce sales in this market.
Actually now is the time to purchase replacements in the up cycle IMO.

Heifers are a lot like draft picks/prospects in professional sports.
It's human nature to envision great things on the future rather than live with the realities of the present.
And like every sports team/fan base we always over value our prospects and criticize those belonging to others

 

[Caustic Burno]

I'm not too sure about your arithmetic. On the back side, every cow you retain has a 9 month cost to keeping her. How would the heifer be any different during those 9 months?

The only added expense I see is the time and money invested between birth and breeding... which is canceled out depending on how much a replacement animal costs. Those 15 months may or may not be comparable.

Granted heifers have their own issues, but some people manage theirs to succeed where others haven't figured it out. I'd certainly rather calve out heifers I raised and bred myself rather than buying younger bred animals that I know very little about.

Heifer is 14 months bred that's seven months after weaning, carried the calf 9 months another 6 months to sell the calf.
So you have No return from the heifer for two years as well as the dam.

 

[Travlr]

Heifer is 14 months bred that's seven months after weaning, carried the calf 9 months another 6 months to sell the calf.
So you have No return from the heifer for two years as well as the dam.

Every cow you retain has a 9 month cost to keeping her. How would the heifer be any different during those 9 months? And as they raise a calf it's the same too. If the cow is raising a calf for the first five/seven months of her pregnancy we're only talking about the profit made and not the entire cost of retention.

Again, the only difference is the amount you'd get for a weaner plus the extra months compared to what you'd pay for a replacement... which if older won't have as long a productive time span.

I'm not saying you're wrong... but I think your math is off.

 

[Heronfish]

Every cow you retain has a 9 month cost to keeping her. How would the heifer be any different during those 9 months? And as they raise a calf it's the same too.

Again, the only difference is the amount you'd get for a weaner plus the extra months compared to what you'd pay for a replacement... which if older won't have as long a productive time span.

I'm not saying you're wrong... but I think your math is off.

Say you wean in November for spring calvers.
That weaned heifer won't bring a calf to market for 2 years.
A replacement cow purchased at the same time brings you a calf in one year.

She returns a cost that quicker.

Now to counter that, purchasing a replacement cow means buying a depreciating asset.
A replacement heifer appreciates in value until she is a 2nd calver. Then again, if you aren't selling her until she comes open that is a moot point.

 

[gcreekrch]

Every cow you retain has a 9 month cost to keeping her. How would the heifer be any different during those 9 months? And as they raise a calf it's the same too. If the cow is raising a calf for the first five/seven months of her pregnancy we're only talking about the profit made and not the entire cost of retention.

Again, the only difference is the amount you'd get for a weaner plus the extra months compared to what you'd pay for a replacement... which if older won't have as long a productive time span.

I'm not saying you're wrong... but I think your math is off.

Correct, unless you are buying this so called replacement the same day you wean her 700 lb calf and sell it. Most people buy their replacements bred and still have a year to pay day.

 

[puzzled in oregon]

Retained heifer cost two years of inputs and the dam returns nothing for two years to the operation.
That's a lot of money.
Secondly the retained heifer has no value to the IRS except inputs or sold.
The bought replacement can be depreciated along with inputs and has value if she dies to the IRS.
I really wouldn't want to reduce sales in this market.
Actually now is the time to purchase replacements in the up cycle IMO.

Sell your heifers to someone, then after the first of the year buy them back.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Every cow you retain has a 9 month cost to keeping her. How would the heifer be any different during those 9 months? And as they raise a calf it's the same too. If the cow is raising a calf for the first five/seven months of her pregnancy we're only talking about the profit made and not the entire cost of retention.

Again, the only difference is the amount you'd get for a weaner plus the extra months compared to what you'd pay for a replacement... which if older won't have as long a productive time span.

I'm not saying you're wrong... but I think your math is off.

She doesn't have two years.

 

[StrojanHerefords]

As a fall calver, I have found the best thing is from a cash flow perspective is to buy short bred or open spring calving cows in the fall. Even if they don't breed up they will still put on weight and sell into a better market in March. My preference is to buy off the ranch. No shrink, no sales commission, one move.

 

[Brute 23]

Sell your heifers to someone, then after the first of the year buy them back.

This.

@Travlr is correct.

Start two business. Business 1 and Business 2.

At weaning B1 sells the heifer to B2. That's solves the cow not returning money for the retained heifer.

B2 developes the heifer and takes her to what ever stage you would like... ready to breed, bred, 2nd calf, what ever.

Then B1 comes back and buys her from B2.

That's solves all the "issues". Now see if that animal can be bought for less or more on the market. You can't compare a 4-6yr old, AB cow to her though either. That's not apples to apples. That's two different games.

 

[Brute 23]

The tax depreciation deal does not work because she has to loose value to get the depreciation even if you buy her.

You do how ever get to write off the expenses of raising a heifer, which lowers the cost raise her.