Red BJR Branded Beef L107

[Boldcat]

I've been thinking about using Branded Beef this year. Has anyone used him ? Feet are a big issue with me , I like a good steep foot angle. Please share your thought's if you're familiar with this bull.
Here is a video of him. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUtjOt89OJM

 

[Jovid]

It would appear that the bull has a hard time walking.......wouldn't make it in my country

 

[KNERSIE]

I've been thinking about using Branded Beef this year. Has anyone used him ? Feet are a big issue with me , I like a good steep foot angle. Please share your thought's if you're familiar with this bull.
Here is a video of him. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUtjOt89OJM

That is probably why feet are a big issue for you.

Why not just go with a sound foot angle in stead of a steep angle. The ideal is 45 degrees.

 

[dun]

I've been thinking about using Branded Beef this year. Has anyone used him ? Feet are a big issue with me , I like a good steep foot angle. Please share your thought's if you're familiar with this bull.
Here is a video of him. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUtjOt89OJM

That is probably why feet are a big issue for you.

Why not just go with a sound foot angle in stead of a steep angle. The ideal is 45 degrees.

As low healed as a lot of the cattle are today, 45 degrees may seem like a steep angle.

 

[piedmontese]

this bull actually appears to walk a little tender footed.

 

[Willow Springs]

He was shown pretty heavily as a yearling and two year old so his stiffness may go back to the heavy feeding he endured back then. How old is he in the video (he would be 10 years old this spring)? He is pretty fleshy there as well, and I don't think he has seen too many tough days in his life.

From what I can remember of him he didn't have the greatest feet, and this was when he was being shown in th fall of 2002. His REA EPD is for real as well, some of the calves can be pretty fine and narrow. Other than sons going thorugh bull sales I don't see too many offspring show up in pedigrees either.

Anyway I think there are far better bulls out there. What is it that you are trying to accomplish by using the bull?

 

[redcowsrule33]

I have no personal experience with him, but I have been told his sire had a poor reputation for feet. Branded Beef looks best in still photos that's for sure, very stiff in that video.

 

[Dylan Biggs]

I've been thinking about using Branded Beef this year. Has anyone used him ? Feet are a big issue with me , I like a good steep foot angle. Please share your thought's if you're familiar with this bull.
Here is a video of him. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUtjOt89OJM

That is probably why feet are a big issue for you.

Why not just go with a sound foot angle in stead of a steep angle. The ideal is 45 degrees.

As low healed as a lot of the cattle are today, 45 degrees may seem like a steep angle.

Yeah no kidding, good point, especially the Red and black Angus. Lots of poor footed very flat heeled cattle.
I know, I own some of them. :tiphat:

 

[Dylan Biggs]

The first thing that strikes me about the bull is his pendulous scrotum, and secondly the undesirable shape of his testicles, flat bottomed asymetrical, the left testicle appears atrophied and no epidyimal definition. What is typically referred to as hammer nuts. I wouldn't be betting on a high quality semen analysis.

This is the preferable shape in my expeience. Symmetrical football type shape with well defined epidyimal tails.

 

[KNERSIE]

Besides that he is just too narrow.

On the feet issue, I think we are talking about different things. If I understood the original poster correctly he was talking about foot angle or better put the angle the pasterns make with the ground. Heel depth is something completely different, although weak pasterns and shallow heel depth usually go hand in hand.

My point was that an upright pastern isn't any better than a weak pastern. Don't try and correct one fault by another fault, cattle breeding don't understand the concept of averaging out.

 

[JHH]

What I see is sickle hocked? Does that sound right? He really doesnt travel free does he. I can see that being a problem.

 

[Dylan Biggs]

Besides that he is just too narrow.

On the feet issue, I think we are talking about different things. If I understood the original poster correctly he was talking about foot angle or better put the angle the pasterns make with the ground. Heel depth is something completely different, although weak pasterns and shallow heel depth usually go hand in hand.

My point was that an upright pastern isn't any better than a weak pastern. Don't try and correct one fault by another fault, cattle breeding don't understand the concept of averaging out.

Good point!

"although weak pasterns and shallow heel depth usually go hand in hand."

'' cattle breeding don't understand the concept of averaging out." Knersie I am not clear on your point, did you mean breeders? What do you mean by averaging out?

Thanks
Dylan

 

[KNERSIE]

Knersie I am not clear on your point, did you mean breeders? What do you mean by averaging out?

If you breed a post legged cow to a sickle hocked bull, its very unlikely that you'll end up with a perfect average between the two. In other words don't go to the other extreme to correct a fault.

In this case the original poster had feet problems ( I assume he means he has too many animals with overgrown hooves), he wants to use a bull with a steep foot angle to correct this. My advice to him is to rather use a bull with perfect legs and feet and fix the problem over time than to try and go to the other extreme in hope to get the average between two faults at different ends of the spectrum.

The same applies for all the other traits as well. If you have frame 7 cows and you want frame 5 cows, you'll have more success by using a few consequtive frame 5 bulls than you'll have by using a frame 3 bull and hope to get the average between the 7 and the 3.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

Knersie I am not clear on your point, did you mean breeders? What do you mean by averaging out?

If you breed a post legged cow to a sickle hocked bull, its very unlikely that you'll end up with a perfect average between the two. In other words don't go to the other extreme to correct a fault.

In this case the original poster had feet problems ( I assume he means he has too many animals with overgrown hooves), he wants to use a bull with a steep foot angle to correct this. My advice to him is to rather use a bull with perfect legs and feet and fix the problem over time than to try and go to the other extreme in hope to get the average between two faults at different ends of the spectrum.

The same applies for all the other traits as well. If you have frame 7 cows and you want frame 5 cows, you'll have more success by using a few consequtive frame 5 bulls than you'll have by using a frame 3 bull and hope to get the average between the 7 and the 3.

Knersie - and others-

You are precisely correct in your comments here! This is exactly to what I refer when discussing "Single Trait Selection" factors in the making of breeding decisions! Cattle breeding is not a "Get Rich Quick" process when making mating decisions. Genetic traits take a long time to solidify the traits in seedstock, and by going to extremes in attempting to achieve a particular characteristic is not the way to do it!

JHH made the comment regarding the bull possibly being "sickle hocked". I noticed that charcteristic almost from the first four steps that he took in the video, Inherited genetics certainly could be a causitive factor of his walking stiffly, but if he had been shown extensively as a youngster, and being over-fed as a consequence, his "feet" concerns could stem from those experiences and 'show string' stresses.

But - whatever the bottom line may be in this regard, focusing on one characteristic, whether it be genetic or merely environmentally created, is not an accepted protocol for successful seedstock mating selections. Never was - never will be!

A successful seedstock producer must consider factors outside the box!

DOC HARRIS

 

[JustSimmental]

We used this bull several years ago on some red PB Simm cows and this is what we found:

His EPD's when balanced for Simmental equaled:

BW: -2.6

WW: + 8.0

YW: + 49.0

MM: + 21

IMF: -0.44

REA: -0.84

His influence on all calves was almost completely negative. His birth weight was good, but the rest of his influences were really lacking. His calves WW; YW; MM; IMF; and REA were pathetic.

Try Brown Commitment as a Red Angus sirehttp://abs-bs.absglobal.com/beef/redangus.asp?CodTouro=29AR0220

 

[W.T]

What i see Is A over fat narrow bull waddling in a pasture. On the feet structure IMO cattle on there rear legs long toes and short heels are normal on sickle hocked cattle, and short toes and deep heels are the norm on post legged cattle. Now In my observations sickle hocked cattle have rotated hips going downward, and post legged cattle have rotated hips going upward. This is the most common with rear leg problems.