Polled Herfs- the next superstar?

[THG]

You should probably call Kevin and see what he thought about the P606's.

From my stand point he is only a cow producer. I wouldn't keep a bull out of him, personally.

Kevins herd is truely a work of art for people that love herefords. I haven't seen such a consistant set of cattle ever, and his groups of bulls keep getting better. If you haven't had a chance to see his herd, you should. This is why I am trying to mimic my herd after his. And am using only SHF bulls for AI and SHF sired bulls for clean up.

Oak, I think that you are taking the right steps in building a cowherd with only using strictly Sandhill Farms genetics. As for P606, I wouldn't keep a son out of him either, he breeds just like the old Oxley bull, OXH Mark Domino 8020, siring progeny with a lot of white, and great uddered females, but 8020 sons weren't great and neither are the P606 bulls. I think the only good P606 I have ever laid my eyes on was the P606 from the JWR herd, AB JWR Demolition 6008 3510. Other than that, I haven't seen any other impressive son of P606 and I never have seen any good ones out of 8020. I think though that using Rib Eye, Pheonix, Marshal, Governor, and M326, you can really build a great group of cattle with females have great udders and ample milk production. Also, bulls sired by these sires from the Schultz bull battery will be also impressive and very marketable in just about any part of the US and Canada.

THG

 

[THG]

Oak he kept alot of em.
With as marketable as p606 heifers are an the high standard that herd has, them still being around says alot to me.
Also with looking thru looks like you have a 606 duaghter or two in your herd.

I dont know about using him as a herd bull, his calves for me are always great. It does seem that if the mother has BW or CE issues he will bring that out. I agree I would be very selective in using a son across the board on a herd. Could be very good or be very bad.

I can tell you this almost always if you breed a good cow to p606 you will get a GREAT heifer. He is an improver.
The BW issue aside and thats a big aside.
He does have problems, but hte more calves I have out of him the more he grows on me...
MD

You know, PW Mohican Nasdaq P316, is a better bull than P606 in my opinions. I think that P316 needs to be used just a little bit more and I think that he will out do P606 by a long shot.

THG

 

[redfornow]

Oak he kept alot of em.
With as marketable as p606 heifers are an the high standard that herd has, them still being around says alot to me.
Also with looking thru looks like you have a 606 duaghter or two in your herd.

I dont know about using him as a herd bull, his calves for me are always great. It does seem that if the mother has BW or CE issues he will bring that out. I agree I would be very selective in using a son across the board on a herd. Could be very good or be very bad.

I can tell you this almost always if you breed a good cow to p606 you will get a GREAT heifer. He is an improver.
The BW issue aside and thats a big aside.
He does have problems, but hte more calves I have out of him the more he grows on me...
MD

You know, PW Mohican Nasdaq P316, is a better bull than P606 in my opinions. I think that P316 needs to be used just a little bit more and I think that he will out do P606 by a long shot.

THG

Those are big claims for any bull that has less than 150 progeny registered....

 

[S&S Farms]

M326 might be smaller framed himself but look at what he is producing, 6-6.5 frame animals. You don't keep a YW EPD like that if you are producing lower framed animals. Rib eye didn't sell for $34000. Only 1/2 semen interest sold for 34000. Rib eye calves are really nice so far, deep and thick. And they come just a little easier then the M326's. The progress bull is a good bull, lowers BW, smaller frame, I think he is going to produce some tremendous females that will open up your choices for bull selection in regards to frame size.


Personally I liked the channing stuff more then the Moler. A lot of people will use the kudzo bull, I don't know how he will perform. World class seems to be throwing some good cattle, but I think he lacks the marketability in the show ring to be marketed to the masses.

I think SHF Marshal should have been used more. I own 10 or so and they are nice, but he won't be a superstar because he wasn't used enough. Oak Creek, I think that Marshal should be used more. I think that he is a super producing bull, has great performance and his daughters are out producing thereselves as first calf heifers. Also, I think that his son that sold in a past Denver sale, SHF Phoenix M33 P68, is a nice bull, kind of a funny picture of him, but I think that his progeny are going to be great. I think that Remitall Governor 236G should have been used more than what he was, darn good bull. 236G daughters I think are better than any Remitall sired cow in the breed.

THG

Will be hard to use him to much he died on July 3rd 2007. Not a good day at the ranch. I would agree his daughters are hard workers. I have several with Radar calves at side. My best donor is a 236G daughter also.

Jeff

 

[THG]

M326 might be smaller framed himself but look at what he is producing, 6-6.5 frame animals. You don't keep a YW EPD like that if you are producing lower framed animals. Rib eye didn't sell for $34000. Only 1/2 semen interest sold for 34000. Rib eye calves are really nice so far, deep and thick. And they come just a little easier then the M326's. The progress bull is a good bull, lowers BW, smaller frame, I think he is going to produce some tremendous females that will open up your choices for bull selection in regards to frame size.


Personally I liked the channing stuff more then the Moler. A lot of people will use the kudzo bull, I don't know how he will perform. World class seems to be throwing some good cattle, but I think he lacks the marketability in the show ring to be marketed to the masses.

I think SHF Marshal should have been used more. I own 10 or so and they are nice, but he won't be a superstar because he wasn't used enough. Oak Creek, I think that Marshal should be used more. I think that he is a super producing bull, has great performance and his daughters are out producing thereselves as first calf heifers. Also, I think that his son that sold in a past Denver sale, SHF Phoenix M33 P68, is a nice bull, kind of a funny picture of him, but I think that his progeny are going to be great. I think that Remitall Governor 236G should have been used more than what he was, darn good bull. 236G daughters I think are better than any Remitall sired cow in the breed.

THG

Will be hard to use him to much he died on July 3rd 2007. Not a good day at the ranch. I would agree his daughters are hard workers. I have several with Radar calves at side. My best donor is a 236G daughter also.

Jeff

Jeff, what a shocker. I will get my semen now soon before it all is gone. How much semen is stored up on the bull? Well, you have the Marshal son, Reality. How are his calves looking Jeff?

THG

THG

 

[THG]

Oak he kept alot of em.
With as marketable as p606 heifers are an the high standard that herd has, them still being around says alot to me.
Also with looking thru looks like you have a 606 duaghter or two in your herd.

I dont know about using him as a herd bull, his calves for me are always great. It does seem that if the mother has BW or CE issues he will bring that out. I agree I would be very selective in using a son across the board on a herd. Could be very good or be very bad.

I can tell you this almost always if you breed a good cow to p606 you will get a GREAT heifer. He is an improver.
The BW issue aside and thats a big aside.
He does have problems, but hte more calves I have out of him the more he grows on me...
MD

You know, PW Mohican Nasdaq P316, is a better bull than P606 in my opinions. I think that P316 needs to be used just a little bit more and I think that he will out do P606 by a long shot.

THG

Those are big claims for any bull that has less than 150 progeny registered....

There is a lot of unregistered stock yet to be registered from the Mohican West and Mohican Polled Hereford herds. I know that he is a darn good bull.

THG

 

[oakcreekfarms]

First off, i said that he is a good cow producer. If they had sexed semen on him I would use it, but I think that I would have to throw away to many bull calves to make it worth my money. I have 4 P606's as well in my herd. They are very attractive cattle, have tremendous udder quality, and are raising some good calves. I am trying to mate them correctly to make up for their BW and lack of IMF. My goal is to have a base cow herd with positive REA and IMF numbers therefore I need to match matings accordingly. Right now I am breeding back the P606's to either Ribeye or Phoenix, and my Marshals to Ribeye and Progress. I will probably throw in a few M326 and Marshal for the cows with lower BW's.

THG did you know that Jeff is the owner of the Marshal Bull. he would be the person to talk to directly or Kevin. The reality bull that Jeff has is a great example of a working Marshal son. Hopefully he can get a picture of the bull up at some point. He is a marshal x Radar's dam.Unlike P606, marshal isn't just a cow producer and he maintains good growth and decent IMF within the cattle.

I believe the M326 bull is already a prolific bull.

 

[redfornow]

Oak he kept alot of em.
With as marketable as p606 heifers are an the high standard that herd has, them still being around says alot to me.
Also with looking thru looks like you have a 606 duaghter or two in your herd.

I dont know about using him as a herd bull, his calves for me are always great. It does seem that if the mother has BW or CE issues he will bring that out. I agree I would be very selective in using a son across the board on a herd. Could be very good or be very bad.

I can tell you this almost always if you breed a good cow to p606 you will get a GREAT heifer. He is an improver.
The BW issue aside and thats a big aside.
He does have problems, but hte more calves I have out of him the more he grows on me...
MD

You know, PW Mohican Nasdaq P316, is a better bull than P606 in my opinions. I think that P316 needs to be used just a little bit more and I think that he will out do P606 by a long shot.

THG

Those are big claims for any bull that has less than 150 progeny registered....

There is a lot of unregistered stock yet to be registered from the Mohican West and Mohican Polled Hereford herds. I know that he is a darn good bull.

THG

Matt,

There is to much hype in the breed, lets not talk about what could be maybe or should be. Thats all wishes.
Point is this when you make a quote like "I think that he will out do P606 by a long shot." you need more than a good calf or two. You need wide spread use in more than 150 herds.
Lets keep it at least alittle real.

MD

 

[THG]

First off, i said that he is a good cow producer. If they had sexed semen on him I would use it, but I think that I would have to throw away to many bull calves to make it worth my money. I have 4 P606's as well in my herd. They are very attractive cattle, have tremendous udder quality, and are raising some good calves. I am trying to mate them correctly to make up for their BW and lack of IMF. My goal is to have a base cow herd with positive REA and IMF numbers therefore I need to match matings accordingly. Right now I am breeding back the P606's to either Ribeye or Phoenix, and my Marshals to Ribeye and Progress. I will probably throw in a few M326 and Marshal for the cows with lower BW's.

THG did you know that Jeff is the owner of the Marshal Bull. he would be the person to talk to directly or Kevin. The reality bull that Jeff has is a great example of a working Marshal son. Hopefully he can get a picture of the bull up at some point. He is a marshal x Radar's dam.Unlike P606, marshal isn't just a cow producer and he maintains good growth and decent IMF within the cattle.

I believe the M326 bull is already a prolific bull.

Oak, I couldn't agree with you any better when you say that about the P606 progeny. I also think that you are breeding your cattle just right, using all Sandhill Genetics will definitely keep you in the Polled Hereford business for awhile. I did know that Jeff owned apart of Marshal, along with Jim Johnson.

THG

 

[redfornow]

First off, i said that he is a good cow producer. If they had sexed semen on him I would use it, but I think that I would have to throw away to many bull calves to make it worth my money. I have 4 P606's as well in my herd. They are very attractive cattle, have tremendous udder quality, and are raising some good calves. I am trying to mate them correctly to make up for their BW and lack of IMF. My goal is to have a base cow herd with positive REA and IMF numbers therefore I need to match matings accordingly. Right now I am breeding back the P606's to either Ribeye or Phoenix, and my Marshals to Ribeye and Progress. I will probably throw in a few M326 and Marshal for the cows with lower BW's.

THG did you know that Jeff is the owner of the Marshal Bull. he would be the person to talk to directly or Kevin. The reality bull that Jeff has is a great example of a working Marshal son. Hopefully he can get a picture of the bull up at some point. He is a marshal x Radar's dam.Unlike P606, marshal isn't just a cow producer and he maintains good growth and decent IMF within the cattle.

I believe the M326 bull is already a prolific bull.

Oak
I agree with you on the sexed semen, I dont sell alot of bulls. So bull calves are not a problem to me. They just need to grow well enough as steers. As I am sure you know selling bulls is more about rep than anything else, I dont have one yet.
So to a large degree you are talking about a problem that I would like to have.... ;-)
But I dont worry much about the CE problems on steers.

I do agree 326 is a really good bull, dont know that he fits in my program but a really good bull.

The ribeye bull is an interesting bull. I assume you have seen him? How do you feel about how me moves?
Just curious.

MD

 

[oakcreekfarms]

There is a splotchy movie of him walking on kevins website
http://www.sandhillfarms.com

I only saw Ribeye as a yearling bull, and in that movie. Beyond that I couldn't tell you very much. i can tell you that I felt like the most consistant group of bull calves at Kevins was out of him. But I guess that really depends on what an individual is looking for. I am a little partial to him because I own a 4/5ths brother that is growing really well.

I realize that a lot of people used P606. But how much of that hype happened when he was a 1 on Birth and 100 or more on yearling. He dropped terribly when used in a wide selection of herds.

 

[THG]

There is a splotchy movie of him walking on kevins website
http://www.sandhillfarms.com

I only saw Ribeye as a yearling bull, and in that movie. Beyond that I couldn't tell you very much. i can tell you that I felt like the most consistant group of bull calves at Kevins was out of him. But I guess that really depends on what an individual is looking for. I am a little partial to him because I own a 4/5ths brother that is growing really well.

I realize that a lot of people used P606. But how much of that hype happened when he was a 1 on Birth and 100 or more on yearling. He dropped terribly when used in a wide selection of herds.

Oak, I couldn't find the video or videos on Kevin's bulls.

THG

 

[redfornow]

There is a splotchy movie of him walking on kevins website
http://www.sandhillfarms.com

I only saw Ribeye as a yearling bull, and in that movie. Beyond that I couldn't tell you very much. i can tell you that I felt like the most consistant group of bull calves at Kevins was out of him. But I guess that really depends on what an individual is looking for. I am a little partial to him because I own a 4/5ths brother that is growing really well.

I realize that a lot of people used P606. But how much of that hype happened when he was a 1 on Birth and 100 or more on yearling. He dropped terribly when used in a wide selection of herds.

Its seems he has settled back down alittle but there for awhile 606 was like a 11 or 12 which is horrid.
The first calf I had out of 606 was an 80 lb block a really bad pull. But after that I have had great luck, IF I stay away from higher ce and bw cows, you know stay in the average.

On that note how much of the drop off of a bull like that do you give to him being used on high BW/CE cows that would have a 95 lber no matter what you breed her to?
You know that wide use on "problem" cows or heifers are going to make that number jump, not just on 606 but other spread bulls.
I think a true CE bull can take it, but they also raise average calves in most cases. The growth just isnt there.

The potential for growth, while bred to a heavy cow or heifer is what I think causes some of these blowouts.
Growth doesnt start at birth.

Anyhow interested to see what you think.

MD

 

[KNERSIE]

There is a splotchy movie of him walking on kevins website
http://www.sandhillfarms.com

I only saw Ribeye as a yearling bull, and in that movie. Beyond that I couldn't tell you very much. i can tell you that I felt like the most consistant group of bull calves at Kevins was out of him. But I guess that really depends on what an individual is looking for. I am a little partial to him because I own a 4/5ths brother that is growing really well.

I realize that a lot of people used P606. But how much of that hype happened when he was a 1 on Birth and 100 or more on yearling. He dropped terribly when used in a wide selection of herds.

Oak, I couldn't find the video or videos on Kevin's bulls.

THG

if you still haven't found it, pm me.

 

[oakcreekfarms]

Well I have a momma havin pups so i will be by this computor longer then I wish to even say. So keep asking

I had looked at the P606 bull even before I got into breeding registered cattle. When he was first marketed he was done so as a low BW son of boomer. A lot of people used him on heifers which drove up his BW. In actuality when bred appropriatly his BW isn't the issue as much as the hard calving problems. They come out like 55 gallon barrels and can create problems even in cows. I haven't used him much personally, but have talked to a lot of people who have and most say the same.

 

[KNERSIE]

I am a little bit at a loss as to why a bull supposedly only sires good heifers and poor bulls. Remember its the same genes, if the bulls are poor, for whatever reason, and the heifers are dandies, then possibly your heifer selection or your ideal heifer isn't in tune with a well balanced bovine?

someone recently said of you stick to the middle of the road you are unlikely to end up in the ditch...

 

[oakcreekfarms]

They lack the growth that i would like, and they lack the IMF, and in correlation with his high CE number I don't like the idea of using him. However his cows have tremendous udders, and are ratioing well. I probably would never buy semen on the bull, but I do have a few in my herd. So far they all seem to be keepers, but their calves will tell the tale.

 

[redfornow]

They lack the growth that i would like, and they lack the IMF, and in correlation with his high CE number I don't like the idea of using him. However his cows have tremendous udders, and are ratioing well. I probably would never buy semen on the bull, but I do have a few in my herd. So far they all seem to be keepers, but their calves will tell the tale.

oak,

I did buy semen on him. lol
The higher milk number worried me. still does.
But so far the heifers I have on the ground form him are MAJOR improvements over the cows they came from. Just have that "look" now three will calf this spring to durango. So that will be the tale for me.
I have younger heifers on the ground this spring, same deal they just look great, the best calfs in the field.
I havnt decided to use a son or grandson in the herd but I may.
My point is even with the high CE he still has his place.
I think???

MD

 

[dun]

I am a little bit at a loss as to why a bull supposedly only sires good heifers and poor bulls. Remember its the same genes, if the bulls are poor, for whatever reason, and the heifers are dandies, then possibly your heifer selection or your ideal heifer isn't in tune with a well balanced bovine?

someone recently said of you stick to the middle of the road you are unlikely to end up in the ditch...

I've never figured it out either but I know it happens. My personal theory is that hormones within the calf turn on either different genes or turn the same genes on differently. Remember it's just a half baked theory

 

[redfornow]

What kind of pups?