Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
ALL of it, or parts & pieces????elkwc":2uw6x097 said:
Pharo cattle company
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gcreekrch":1m51dkb6 said:
Apparently so. Lol
https://www.pharocattle.com/blog/pharo- ... ing-rights
One thing I noticed,when he quoted Ranchman90 he left out the word "bull". Black "bull" calves. That can make a big difference.
ALACOWMAN
Well-known member
Don't know why he should care,, there's always naysayers in every realm of business..
Supa Dexta
Well-known member
And the 500lb calves are 2 or 3 months closer to slaughter - atleast.
Ebenezer
Well-known member
Naysayers don't like naysayers. Blast 99% of the industry as stupid because you are self-smart is OK from his point of view. Question the 1% want-a-be-king and you are bad. Keep on rollin' with the flow.
Pharo makes sense until you realize how far to the extreme with cow size he is. I've owned a couple of smaller cows in the past, they would have still been bigger then most pharo sized cows, along with regular sized cows. The dollars don't add up especially if you want to carry them to 800lbs, they would be close to being finished by then.
Muddy
Well-known member
I wondered if the 380lbs Pharo sired calves and the 500lbs calves are at the same age?Supa Dexta":2e7x7s7n said:
Not only this but I bet these pharo calves will be over finished by the slaughter time and you'll have a heap of fat wastes.
Supa Dexta
Well-known member
From the size references in this thread, I dont think over finished is a concern.
The bit about playing Offense and Defense is important to remember. Pharo is correct, IMO, about breeding for cattle that fit the environment, and I believe, mostly right about smaller cattle being more efficient. (exceptions to every rule) But small framed calves do get docked. I believe most people would make more money with moderate sized cattle (frame 4.0-5.5) bred to a terminal bull, and not saving those heifers) Pharo bulls would probably work best to downsize the black cows out there that weight 1800+ with 3 terminal bulls up close in their pedigree. If you trace Pharo's pedigrees, many of them feature Ohlde, Wye, Beckton, and Buffalo Creek breeding; programs that have made a mark on their respective niches. The Pharo program certainly excels at marketing, but I believe it is pointing in the right direction, the caveat is also that there is a place for breeding maternal, and a place to breed pounds.
Ned Jr.":2adeceff said:
LOL, if you can't dazzle with brilliance baffle with bs.
Can't take Mr Pharo's marketing skills away, he is an expert at selling an inferior product and making others believe it is the only way to success.
I am actually feeding 7 Pharo sired calves in the bunch I bought in Dec. They are noticably not keeping up with the rest.
jscunn
Well-known member
A couple of things, at some point buyers are gonna remember those 380# steers that finish at 900 and hang less than 600# carcasses. The packer, feedlot manager, and the buyer will all remember those steers. Next years 380# steers wont bring near as much in relation to the market as the first set. Kit's thinking is really short sighted, yes he is probably correct about pounds per acre, but at some point you will be "rewarded" for the way those cattle perform on feed. The market will catch up to Kit's buyers sooner rather than later.
Everyone who raises cattle needs to remember that at some point his cattle or his buyers cattle must perform for each segment of the chain. (cow/calf, feedlot/backgrounder, packer)
Everyone who raises cattle needs to remember that at some point his cattle or his buyers cattle must perform for each segment of the chain. (cow/calf, feedlot/backgrounder, packer)
In the comparison that was used with the RA Pharo sired calves and the black bulls there is too many unknowns to even compare. First what was comparable quality and size black angus or black baldies bringing that day? Second sometimes there is sometime a price variation between weights that don't make sense. Two years ago we took several head to the top sale barn in this area. Was basically two groups. One in the mid 7's and the other around 565 if memory serves me correctly. Sired by the same bulls. Just later calves. Cows of both groups related so quality was very similar. There was a total of around 10 dollars a head between the two groups. It don't happen often but it does. The other thing is selling the small frame calves early many times is similar to selling a LH or corriente cross early. They will sell better when they are younger as they don't show the quality and lack of frame issues much if any at that weight. Where you see the lack of frame and performance really start to show up and hurt you is as the weight increases. It costs a lot more to put pounds on as they get heavier. Most around here retain calves until they are at least 7 and many times if there is plenty of pasture until they are over 8 even up to 9. By those weights the smaller framed, poor performers will sort themselves out. Like I stated before I've talked to those that have tried the Pharo cattle and many are considered good cattlemen and everyone says it cost them too much money using them. The few that retained heifers said they were hardy but their calves were poor performers. I was always taught to let my cattle and my horses do the talking. What I've seen his cattle have and for most they don't work.
jdg":6f59nhtb said:
IMO Kit had cattle that was useful to commercial breeders when he was breeding the type that Ohlde, Beckton and others raise. He has took the frame size on down from what those breeders raise and has lost performance while doing it. He has went extreme. IMO extremes are never productive or the wise choice. If a person wants to feed his own and market them then the extremely small cattle might work. I've seen minis not much smaller than some of the Pharo cattle I've seen. With that being said I know every area is different but we don't see many if any cows in the 1,800# plus range here. We had one in the herd I help with when I started helping and she was sold over 2 years ago. Have seen 1-2 more in the range or close to it in 4 years. She had 100 older cows when I started helping. Most were in the 1,550-1600# range. He cow size has moderated some since. Today I would say most are in the 1,350-1,450 range. This size of cow will produce a calf that will make money for everyone when mated to a bull that will weigh a ton and a frame 5.5-6.0. Here we have to have a bull that is maternal and also will produce a productive calf as a feeder and on the rail. Most breeders here retain heifers. If you went to a terminal type management system like you suggest and not retain heifers then finding suitable replacements is vey hard and expensive. Again these costs would need to be figured in when deciding the cost of using a Pharo bull. In summary I respectfully disagree that the Pharo cattle are a move in the right direction. At least not for me and all I talk too. And that includes those who have tried them.
Muddy
Well-known member
Does anyone really have a herd of 1,800lbs black cows? And why would you want these 1,800lbs cows have the dink calves if these cows are bred to the small framed bulls?
Muddy":3bneg03f said:
Muddy I agree. And one question I have is with all of the bulls they sell every year why don't you see some close out reports on how the progeny of Pharo bulls have fed and also how they did on the rail? I have a feeling the results aren't good or we would be seeing some. If they keep 50% of the males for bulls that is still a lot of steers that have to be fed and then the progeny of the bulls they sell. Again I have looked for several years and have yet to find any results.
