Pharo cattle company

[Supa Dexta]

I could take a bull calf and put him in spruce trees and he'd be over 900 by 2. We're in the beef making business, not miniature pony show.

 

[Ebenezer]

In widespread marketing, you need to replace 10% of your customer base per year to keep up. With internet, paid to speak, newletters, ... it is not hard to do that if you are already paying for it or getting paid to do it. Get to a new spot, pick up a few followers, get them to tell their friends, ...

Terms get maligned. A herd quitter used to mean that you sold out. Now it means you quit the norm and follow a new guru. That would truthfully be a herd changer or saying that you are switching membership to a new denomination. Pounds per acre are supposed to pay more bills than calves that can top a market. Works best on power point and paper. Vaccination programs are told to be unnecessary nationwide when the disease pressures are different in different parts to warrant vaccination. More of a club mentality, a fan base, monkey see - monkey do, ...

Not saying dishonest, just not reasonable and for the sake of personal gain. I wonder more about the folks who see a dime in the distance to find out it is a slug on closer look and after a large investment. In fairness, the mainstream is flawed, too. Just a different sales pitch and more of them.

 

[ddd75]

Will add a few more of my observations on the Pharo cattle. The first time I ever heard about them a coworker brought a catalog to work and was telling me that him and several others were going to his sale and how he had developed cattle that were the answer for all cattlemen in this area. I looked at the catalog and had my doubts. They went to the sale and a few bought some high priced bulls for that time and brought them home. When I saw them it confirmed my initial thoughts when I looked at the catalog. Within a few years not a single breeder still had a bull left. They were docked for the calves and were giving up 60-100 lbs at weaning. Since then I've talked to several others who have tried them and they all tell the same story. One still uses semen from Pharo bulls on his heifers and that is all. He had used them on cows previously but stated like all have that he was giving up too many pounds along with he dock. We were weaning heavier calves in the 60's in the arid region of NM than the Pharo calves wean at. The area of OK where I run cows now had several breeders for a few years and Pharo sold bulls in that area at least once. In a year many of the bulls were for sale on Craiglist and now I don't know of a single breeder who uses them. He is a great marketer and it seems to me he has a knack for finding a new area to market bulls in when one dies out. This is a free country I'm just stating the observations I've made and why we don't consider them. If someone else chooses too that is their right. I've been told some other things by good friends where he lives but won't share it here. I feel he had some good ideas when he started but have took them to an extreme now. He used to partner with some good cattlemen that he no longer does. Again it is a decision each breeder has to make and by being well informed it is easier to make a good decision.

I figured thats exactly what was going on. I never bought into the program as I saw how much those smaller calves are docked. I know a guy who bought 2 pharo calves last year. He showed them to me and they were very small framed. He told me he was breeding them.. EVEN I thought they were way too small to be bred.

 

[ddd75]

i also noticed james on here from ohio cattle company.. (he markets with pharo) I noticed he was #1 or 2 in registered angus for the state. This year he wasn't even on the top 10. Not sure whats going on with that.

 

[Stocker Steve]

In fairness, the mainstream is flawed, too. Just a different sales pitch and more of them.

We don't like Kit's selling style either, and I am sick of the small cow math. :deadhorse:

One of the **** for brains operations here is using Pharo on Pharo breeding. Terrible grazing management too. But, the small calves are better able to crawl through barbed wire fence to get so some grass in the road ditch. :nod: Must be part of the more pairs per acre plan...

We would never use Pharo bulls to sire terminal feedlot cattle. One of the sharper operations in this area is using small angus bulls to make replacement heifers, and then using terminal Simi bulls to make feedlot cattle. :idea: What is the flaw with this cross breeding approach?

 

[Ned Jr.]

There's a point where a person might as well just raise sheep. A even higher stocking rate AND multiple births.

I sat in the sale barn yesterday and watched small framed cattle get hammered! Far more than for any breed or color. I can't see how they would work even with higher stocking rates and lower input. Have to be tight margins.

 

[Ned Jr.]

There's a point where a person might as well just raise sheep. A even higher stocking rate AND multiple births.

I sat in the sale barn yesterday and watched small framed cattle get hammered! Far more than for any breed or color. I can't see how they would work even with higher stocking rates and lower input. Have to be tight margins.

 

[Muddy]

There is a HUGE difference in the prices between small framed calves and lightweight calves. Lightweight calves brings more than these short calves. We had few small framed calves from a short Angus bull many years ago..... got docked very badly.

 

[Stocker Steve]

I sat in the sale barn yesterday and watched small framed cattle get hammered! Far more than for any breed or color. I can't see how they would work even with higher stocking rates and lower input.

You sell the short steer calves at sales barn for $500, and sell the heifers on the internet for $1500. :banana:
Can you average $1000/head with sheep?

 

[Ned Jr.]

I sat in the sale barn yesterday and watched small framed cattle get hammered! Far more than for any breed or color. I can't see how they would work even with higher stocking rates and lower input.

You sell the short steer calves at sales barn for $500, and sell the heifers on the internet for $1500. :banana:
Can you average $1000/head with sheep?

Well no, but isn't the higher stocking rate and lower input supposed to make up for that.

 

[Lucky_P]

Looked at 'em about 10 yrs ago, and almost ordered some semen. Used a more 'mainstream' 4.0 frame Angus bull for a couple of years... made 'em plenty small... hate to think about what those 2.5 FS low-growth Pharo bulls would have dealt me.

 

[Ebenezer]

I sat in the sale barn yesterday and watched small framed cattle get hammered! Far more than for any breed or color. I can't see how they would work even with higher stocking rates and lower input.

You sell the short steer calves at sales barn for $500, and sell the heifers on the internet for $1500. :banana:
Can you average $1000/head with sheep?

Sheep math: 5 ewes per cow, ewe will lamb at 1 YO, can lamb 3X every two years. Sell lambs from 3 months and up or 2 months and up on crossbreeds. If ewes have 150% then one lambing is 7.5 lambs (half a lamb is food for small family! :lol: )
Plug in a lamb market value and there you go.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

This small cow math (to me) is a joke.
No matter how big or small your cow is, it takes just as much time to run thru the chute for vaccines. Vaccines cost the same. You have to spend as much (or not) on watching cows for calving difficulties.
Plus side: dewormers would be cheaper!
As far as labor - they are equal. Well, unless you are butchering one. LOL

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Are they really that small?? 2.5 frame :shock:
I have not seen or heard a "speel" on Pharo cattle in a long time.

 

[Lazy M]

This small cow math (to me) is a joke.
No matter how big or small your cow is, it takes just as much time to run thru the chute for vaccines. Vaccines cost the same. You have to spend as much (or not) on watching cows for calving difficulties.
Plus side: dewormers would be cheaper!
As far as labor - they are equal. Well, unless you are butchering one. LOL

I may be wrong but I believe that Pharo or some of his converts claim that their cattle are so hardy that they don't need vaccinations or deworming..

 

[Lucky_P]

Looked at the offerings today... I'd not peeked in years.
I see he's no longer listing frame scores, but I remember more than one in his old semen catalog(and some of those bulls are still available) that were FS 2.5 to 3.0; may have been some that were even smaller... I don't know about the Lowlines...
WW epds of 10-20... there ain't much 'grow' to 'em.
'Fleshing ability', 5 stars! yeah, I imagine they're short & dumpies that finish real early.

 

[elkwc]

Looked at the offerings today... I'd not peeked in years.
I see he's no longer listing frame scores, but I remember more than one in his old semen catalog(and some of those bulls are still available) that were FS 2.5 to 3.0; may have been some that were even smaller... I don't know about the Lowlines...
WW epds of 10-20... there ain't much 'grow' to 'em.
'Fleshing ability', 5 stars! yeah, I imagine they're short & dumpies that finish real early.

I see his remarks about frame 3.5-4.0 that weigh a ton. I have never seen one with his breeding that would weigh a ton. They would have to weigh 1,500 first. Most cows I've seen are below a 1,000 and don't look like easy fleshers to me.

 

[RanchMan90]

There is no silver bullet in the cattle industry. Once you get out of the box you step into another. Neighbor sold some Pharo sired Ra calves in September that weighted 380 for $2.10 a lb. I was buying 500 lb black bull calves for $1.60 then. Came out to same dollars per head.

 

[Muddy]

I sat in the sale barn yesterday and watched small framed cattle get hammered! Far more than for any breed or color. I can't see how they would work even with higher stocking rates and lower input.

You sell the short steer calves at sales barn for $500, and sell the heifers on the internet for $1500. :banana:
Can you average $1000/head with sheep?

More like $300 for the steers.

 

[elkwc]

This thread made the Pharo newsletter.