Pharo cattle company

[Silver]

So undesirable that it seems their genetics aren't even mentioned!

Nah, they didn't mention them because it was about beef cattle.

 

[rocfarm]

Nah, they didn't mention them because it was about beef cattle.

THAT'S IT!

No respect for the cattle that give us our beloved F grade beef Taco Bell Burritos? I'm gonna start a registry for corriente cattle and build the best corriente genetics the world has ever seen!
The requirements for my registry?

1) No EPDs allowed.
2) Bloodlines not accepted. To enter your cattle, you must attest that they are mongrels. Also, NO POLLED CATTLE ALLOWED! If they look to even have a touch of angus, they're out.
3) You have to prove that your corrientes have been on moderate to poor forage-and no supplements! Showing they have been living off of mesquite trees, prickly pear, broom weed and yucca is best. If they've been on Bermuda or some other improved grass, they can't be registered. If they are found to have have been later moved to good forage or supplamented, immediate disqualification.
4) Any cattle you claim are corriente are further subject to immediate disqualification if they look too fat, slick, or just too darn pretty. HOMLINESS IS A DEFINING CHARACTERISTIC OF THE BREED.
5) These cattle must not be too docile. Anyone working around them should always, at the very least, feel a bit nervous. Terrified they are going to get hooked is much better.
6) If the producer can prove that he consistently gets laughed at by other cattlemen, the sale barn employees, and the buyers at the sale barn, his cattle will get moved up in my registry.

Finally, in order to prove everyone wrong about the marketability of my breed, I will be negotiating with Taco Bell to get approved 'Certified Corriente Beef: Exact Origins Unknown But You Wouldn't Want to Know Anyway' labels put on the burrito wrappers themselves. From there, I'll be moving into the supermarkets!

No need to fill out any forms for my new registry. Everyone here who is in on the ground floor just let me know in this chat.

 

[Lee VanRoss]

THAT'S IT!

No respect for the cattle that give us our beloved F grade beef Taco Bell Burritos? I'm gonna start a registry for corriente cattle and build the best corriente genetics the world has ever seen!
The requirements for my registry?

1) No EPDs allowed.
2) Bloodlines not accepted. To enter your cattle, you must attest that they are mongrels. Also, NO POLLED CATTLE ALLOWED! If they look to even have a touch of angus, they're out.
3) You have to prove that your corrientes have been on moderate to poor forage-and no supplements! Showing they have been living off of mesquite trees, prickly pear, broom weed and yucca is best. If they've been on Bermuda or some other improved grass, they can't be registered. If they are found to have have been later moved to good forage or supplamented, immediate disqualification.
4) Any cattle you claim are corriente are further subject to immediate disqualification if they look too fat, slick, or just too darn pretty. [HOMLINESS IS A DEFINING CHARACTERISTIC OF THE BREED.]
5) These cattle must not be too docile. Anyone working around them should always, at the very least, feel a bit nervous. Terrified they are going to get hooked is much better.
6) If the producer can prove that he consistently gets laughed at by other cattlemen, the sale barn employees, and the buyers at the sale barn, his cattle will get moved up in my registry.

Finally, in order to prove everyone wrong about the marketability of my breed, I will be negotiating with Taco Bell to get approved 'Certified Corriente Beef: Exact Origins Unknown But You Wouldn't Want to Know Anyway' labels put on the burrito wrappers themselves. From there, I'll be moving into the supermarkets!

No need to fill out any forms for my new registry. Everyone here who is in on the ground floor just let me know in this chat.

Au Contraire! Corriente are anything but homely but can be quite striking in almost any setting and while they can survive under
adverse conditions they would probably require a better ration than prescribed by yourself. I am surprised you forgot Cholla!
Actually being unable to find worth in a living creature reveals much of yourself. Your cattle, if any, have my condolences...

 

[Nesikep]

Speaking of swiss cattle, I'd like to get my hands on some Herens cattle, small, black, and pretty decent looking with some good cloud stabbers on them

 

[Warren Allison]

Think I said that. Evidently newbs can glean something from research. What about corriente, though? So undesirable that it seems their genetics aren't even mentioned!

If you listen to the video, this is a chart of the most popular beef breeds used in America. No Criollo cattle, none of the other Indicus cattle, several British and Continental , as well as African breeds not on here either. Neither are any of the dairy breeds. Research benefits everyone, not just newbies. I have been involved with horses for 61 years. trained a few WGC in my life, stud 3 stallions at stud in my life, have bought and sold a lot. Lost count at 500 in 2002. And I learn something every time I fool with one. Learn something form any person I have taught or trained, even beginners. It might be what NOT to do, but I learn something. Who you CAN"T learn from is a fool who thinks he knows everything, or more than anyone else. And a fool who DOES think he knows everything, or more than anyone else, is about as ignorant, if not more so, than a beginning cattleman. I forgot who the two were, and not interested in it enough to go through all the comments, but one person on here said that at Simmental and Gelbiev were once the same cattle and another said they weren't. Well, they are. Or were.

 

[elkwc]

Source: "Dude, trust me" is not a valid citation
At this point it's just like your neighbor's ex wife's 3rd cousin said it


Maybe your area started off with some exceptionally bad tempered animals from breeders that didn't care, but the breed generally is known to be easy to handle.. MARC goes as far as to say UNQUESTIONABLY
Nesi you believe everyone should trust you even when you make statements about breeds you don't raise and herds you've never seen. You like a few others like to degrade the Titus's breeds. I have seen several posts about Herefords and prolapses, bad eyes and bad teats and udders. I have been around them for 60 years and we never had any of these issues. Maybe it was because we were careful in selection and knew what bloodlines were trouble free. And the Hereford association and breeders made a concentrated effort to eliminate many of the bloodlines with issues. And as was stated in another post maybe those who have experienced issues didn't do their due diligence. Maybe in a Ada you don't have the docility issue in the exotics including Gelbveigh's we see here. Like I stated PB Gelbveigh breeders told me there is an issue in certain bloodlines and our bull had one of those bloodlines. The difference between my statements and yours is mine is based on real world experience. You make statements about breeds you don't raise and herds you have never seen. I would also guess that myself and most of the breeders I've visited with have handled more cattle of different breeds than you have.

 

[farmerjan]

I have used some Gelbvieh AI on some cows many years back, and we had a bull also and they were all very good dispositioned. Guess we lucked out.

 

[rocfarm]

If you listen to the video, this is a chart of the most popular beef breeds used in America. No Criollo cattle, none of the other Indicus cattle, several British and Continental , as well as African breeds not on here either. Neither are any of the dairy breeds. Research benefits everyone, not just newbies. I have been involved with horses for 61 years. trained a few WGC in my life, stud 3 stallions at stud in my life, have bought and sold a lot. Lost count at 500 in 2002. And I learn something every time I fool with one. Learn something form any person I have taught or trained, even beginners. It might be what NOT to do, but I learn something. Who you CAN"T learn from is a fool who thinks he knows everything, or more than anyone else. And a fool who DOES think he knows everything, or more than anyone else, is about as ignorant, if not more so, than a beginning cattleman. I forgot who the two were, and not interested in it enough to go through all the comments, but one person on here said that at Simmental and Gelbiev were once the same cattle and another said they weren't. Well, they are. Or were.

Well, sorry, I won't have time to watch that ENTIRE video. I'll be too busy setting up my Corriente Registry. And, BTW, corrientes are definitely distinct from Crillos. The distinction goes back to two distinct groups brought on the same boat in 1493.

As the story goes, they ran out of hay on the way over and separated the lesser, homelier cattle and decided to throw them over the side (they were in such bad shape sailors already on a hard-tack diet didn't even want to use them in their chili.

But fate was standing by. A cabin boy, who later ended up being the Great, Great, Great x25 generations of every single animal rights group in North America today threw himself in front of the cattle in question and said that he'd feed them. The captain figured, "What the hey, I'd like to see how this turns out." So he gave the cattle to the young animal rights activist.

Days passed and the cattle didn't die. Nobody could figure out how that boy did it, but he kept those cattle alive. When they finally reached the new world after three hurricanes and two typhoons blew them off course for another 6 months, some of the sailors had even starting showing signs of revering the boy and the cattle. In fact, even when they got low on provisions after having finally sighted land but then subsequently being blown back out to sea by a class five tornado for another two weeks, the sailors refused to consider eating the cattle because they were now 'special in a way we don't understand,' to quote an Irish sailor named McAngus that was on the boat. Others agreed and said they'd rather starve.

When they finally got those cattle off the boat in Central America, the weirdest thing happened. Those cattle refused to eat any lush, green, native stuff, but instead went straight for creosote brush. As creosote brush is abundant up towards Texas, that group headed straight for El Paso, while the Crillo stayed around Mexico.

The captain, who had felt quite entertained by the whole episode, asked the boy, "What did you feed them to keep them alive?" The boy said nonchalantly, "Well, one thing you're never short of on a sailboat is pine pitch. Turns out it has good energy and just enough protein content to get them through tough times."

And there folks, is the story of the ancestors of the corriente cattle we have in Texas today.

I'll work on a history for the other breeds when I get the time. But for now, I've got to get to work.

 

[Warren Allison]

Well, sorry, I won't have time to watch that ENTIRE video. I'll be too busy setting up my Corriente Registry. And, BTW, corrientes are definitely distinct from Crillos. The distinction goes back to two distinct groups brought on the same boat in 1493.

As the story goes, they ran out of hay on the way over and separated the lesser, homelier cattle and decided to throw them over the side (they were in such bad shape sailors already on a hard-tack diet didn't even want to use them in their chili.

But fate was standing by. A cabin boy, who later ended up being the Great, Great, Great x25 generations of every single animal rights group in North America today threw himself in front of the cattle in question and said that he'd feed them. The captain figured, "What the hey, I'd like to see how this turns out." So he gave the cattle to the young animal rights activist.

Days passed and the cattle didn't die. Nobody could figure out how that boy did it, but he kept those cattle alive. When they finally reached the new world after three hurricanes and two typhoons blew them off course for another 6 months, some of the sailors had even starting showing signs of revering the boy and the cattle. In fact, even when they got low on provisions after having finally sighted land but then subsequently being blown back out to sea by a class five tornado for another two weeks, the sailors refused to consider eating the cattle because they were now 'special in a way we don't understand,' to quote an Irish sailor named McAngus that was on the boat. Others agreed and said they'd rather starve.

When they finally got those cattle off the boat in Central America, the weirdest thing happened. Those cattle refused to eat any lush, green, native stuff, but instead went straight for creosote brush. As creosote brush is abundant up towards Texas, that group headed straight for El Paso, while the Crillo stayed around Mexico.

The captain, who had felt quite entertained by the whole episode, asked the boy, "What did you feed them to keep them alive?" The boy said nonchalantly, "Well, one thing you're never short of on a sailboat is pine pitch. Turns out it has good energy and just enough protein content to get them through tough times."

And there folks, is the story of the ancestors of the corriente cattle we have in Texas today.

I'll work on a history for the other breeds when I get the time. But for now, I've got to get to work.

Bless your poor ignorant heart. You don't have time to read an article or watch a short video to TRY to learn something, yet have time for this foolishness. You are a perfect example of the old adage " It is better to remain silent and have folks think you are stupid, than to open your mouth ( or type on your keys) and remove all doubt".

 

[Nesikep]

@elkwc

Nesi you believe everyone should trust you even when you make statements about breeds you don't raise and herds you've never seen. You like a few others like to degrade the Titus's breeds. I have seen several posts about Herefords and prolapses, bad eyes and bad teats and udders. I have been around them for 60 years and we never had any of these issues. Maybe it was because we were careful in selection and knew what bloodlines were trouble free. And the Hereford association and breeders made a concentrated effort to eliminate many of the bloodlines with issues. And as was stated in another post maybe those who have experienced issues didn't do their due diligence. Maybe in a Ada you don't have the docility issue in the exotics including Gelbveigh's we see here. Like I stated PB Gelbveigh breeders told me there is an issue in certain bloodlines and our bull had one of those bloodlines. The difference between my statements and yours is mine is based on real world experience. You make statements about breeds you don't raise and herds you have never seen. I would also guess that myself and most of the breeders I've visited with have handled more cattle of different breeds than you have.

Oh Mr Clairevoyant, who knows all these things about me!!
Meanwhile, pot meet kettle, you're sure painting the Gelbvieh (Yes, that's how it's spelled by the way) breed with at least as broad a brush
My experience with Herefords? well, we started off with herf and it was a friggin' train wreck.. of the 20 cows we started with, we're down to bloodlines from about 3, and the 3 biggest issues with them were feet, udders and vaginal prolapses, and many times all 3. All I say about the Lentz cattle is if they in fact have had a linebred herd for some hundred years i'd expect evident flaws to be corrected by then. Do you have stock in Lentz's herd that you're so butthurt about them getting criticism? Likewise you ought to demand better from your local Gelbvieh breeders if they're doing such a bad job on docility.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Nesi, your genetics may be totally different, but the cattle here since the early arrival has had a well known temp problem. So much so, we had to failed several bulls on the NY bull test strictly on dispo.
The breed association finally wore up, like the Limos, and added a dispo EPD. Also, the Limos had to have a special exemption from the requirement for a 32cm scrotal circumference from 32cm to 30cm because they were so late developing. I was on the board and I did all the calculations for Cornell Univ for the bull test.
So....don't get so offended because breeders had poor experiences with the breed. It was well deserved.

 

[rocfarm]

Nesi, your genetics may be totally different, but the cattle here since the early arrival has had a well known temp problem. So much so, we had to failed several bulls on the NY bull test strictly on dispo.
The breed association finally wore up, like the Limos, and added a dispo EPD. Also, the Limos had to have a special exemption from the requirement for a 32cm scrotal circumference from 32cm to 30cm because they were so late developing. I was on the board and I did all the calculations for Cornell Univ for the bull test.
So....don't get so offended because breeders had poor experiences with the breed. It was well deserved.

So, which breed(s) has the best genetic predisposition to good dispositions in their bulls in your opinion?

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Well, that's a Loaded question!! ALL breeds have good and bad. Some bad dispos are inherited, some are developed by breeder/owner.
"Generally" the small statured breeds tend to be the nastiest in all species.
Herefords probably have the biggest rep of being docile.
People have had bad experiences with xx breed and will bad mouth them forever.
Personally, all my Simmentals and those I have been exposed to are and have been gentle giants. I have culled 1 heifer calf strictly on temperament over a good number of years. She went to a feedlot.
I'm sure different strains showed up in different areas that were loco.

 

[rocfarm]

Well, that's a Loaded question!! ALL breeds have good and bad. Some bad dispos are inherited, some are developed by breeder/owner.
"Generally" the small statured breeds tend to be the nastiest in all species.
Herefords probably have the biggest rep of being docile.
People have had bad experiences with xx breed and will bad mouth them forever.
Personally, all my Simmentals and those I have been exposed to are and have been gentle giants. I have culled 1 heifer calf strictly on temperament over a good number of years. She went to a feedlot.
I'm sure different strains showed up in different areas that were loco.

Is it true that smarter cattle tend to be less docile? Read one study that said we've dumbed the cattle down to increase docility. Wonder if that works directly against mothering instinct/ability and such. It seems like some of the less docile cattle make better mothers, but I haven't tried to research that one.

 

[Silver]

Until this thread I'd never heard of Gelbveih as having a reputation for bad temperament. I wonder if it was more an issue with strains in the US?
We had a couple of Gelbvieh bulls years ago and they were fine. So we're their offspring. I realize that's only anecdotal but no one I've ever met that's been around them has mentioned temperament. Angus used to have a bad rep, as did Simmental. Salers even worse.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

@Silver that was what i was thinking might be the differences.
And yes Salers have quite a reputation.
But, in all honesty, a lot of us had exposure....good and bad....many years ago. Let's hope anyone continuing a breed has made improvements.
There are so few of these breeds being discussed in the NE, I should not have an opinion on what they are today.
My biggest exposure is at shows, and there are no Salers, Gelbvieh, and few straight Limousin (shown in All Other Breeds).

 

[Rmc]

Read one study that said we've dumbed the cattle down to increase docility. Wonder if that works directly against mothering instinct/ability and such. It seems like some of the less docile cattle make better mothers, but I haven't tried to research that one.

Yes many select for docility , and in my opinion it affects mother ability.
A extreme example are Holstein milk cows.
In my opinion docility and motherabilty are antagonistic.
I expect my cattle to defend and protect their calves. Many see this as a negative trait and select against it. To me good mothering is my just under fertility in priority. If a mother allows her calves to be approached by predators or allows other cows calves to bully or harass their offspring that is not ok with me.

 

[Warren Allison]

Speaking of swiss cattle, I'd like to get my hands on some Herens cattle, small, black, and pretty decent looking with some good cloud stabbers on them

I wonder if there are any in the US? Love the horn shape...wonder if that is a trait that could pass through to a cross bred?

 

[Nesikep]

Nesi, your genetics may be totally different, but the cattle here since the early arrival has had a well known temp problem. So much so, we had to failed several bulls on the NY bull test strictly on dispo.
The breed association finally wore up, like the Limos, and added a dispo EPD. Also, the Limos had to have a special exemption from the requirement for a 32cm scrotal circumference from 32cm to 30cm because they were so late developing. I was on the board and I did all the calculations for Cornell Univ for the bull test.
So....don't get so offended because breeders had poor experiences with the breed. It was well deserved.

I don't get offended because someone says they had bad experiences with any breed, Someone being hypocritical does get me to me though
On a lighter note, I guess the Gelbvieh's just had to breed out that german temperament!

I wonder if there are any in the US? Love the horn shape...wonder if that is a trait that could pass through to a cross bred?

I'm not sure, I know that many Swiss farmers deliberately shape their horns though. There's some good videos on youtube of the cow fights, it's kinda neat to see these cows mad at each other, fight, and then the lose runs off, gets haltered and nicely led out of the ring

 

[elkwc]

@elkwc



Oh Mr Clairevoyant, who knows all these things about me!!
Meanwhile, pot meet kettle, you're sure painting the Gelbvieh (Yes, that's how it's spelled by the way) breed with at least as broad a brush
My experience with Herefords? well, we started off with herf and it was a friggin' train wreck.. of the 20 cows we started with, we're down to bloodlines from about 3, and the 3 biggest issues with them were feet, udders and vaginal prolapses, and many times all 3. All I say about the Lentz cattle is if they in fact have had a linebred herd for some hundred years i'd expect evident flaws to be corrected by then. Do you have stock in Lentz's herd that you're so butthurt about them getting criticism? Likewise you ought to demand better from your local Gelbvieh breeders if they're doing such a bad job on docility.