Given that there is no perfect animal, what flaws/traits would you be willing to overlook? Can you accept a cow with a weak flank, or high tail head or poor feet/legs if those are the only faults? How about bulls faults?
Perfect cow/bull
- Thread starter dun
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backhoeboogie
Well-known member
I'll accept ear. Dumbo ears are great.
dun":4odmn3to said:
I don't think it is so much, finding no faults at all; but what degree of flaw. There is a difference between being acceptably 'sickle hocked' and being so 'sickle hocked' that soundness is in doubt.
As far as cows go, some of the ugliest cows we have produce the best calves, that's why they're still here. I'll overlook the weak flank on a cow, not crazy about the high tailhead but I can deal with it. Feet and legs are the most important out of the items you've listed. If they can't move everything else is negligible. Big tits and udder problems don't bother me as long as I don't have to touch them. When they need special treatment is when they start hitting the road.
I'm a little more picky with the bulls, they're half of a whole group of calves whereas a cow is half of one calf. Not as picky on epd's as most, but structure is the most important item to me. Never seen the perfect bull, don't think there is such a beast.
cfpinz
I'm a little more picky with the bulls, they're half of a whole group of calves whereas a cow is half of one calf. Not as picky on epd's as most, but structure is the most important item to me. Never seen the perfect bull, don't think there is such a beast.
cfpinz
arkcowman
Well-known member
I have been taught that feet are very important and that the condition of the feet can indicate genetic traits obviously both good and bad. Heathly teeth/mouth a must. I might be some flexible on hide color although here BLACK is still in demand.
randiliana
Well-known member
In a cow, it depends a lot on the degree of the flaw. Feet and legs, and udders are probably the two areas where the flaw would have to be realatively minor. If the flaw in the feet/legs is to the extent that it interferes with mobility, then I wouldn't over look it. However if it were just a case of longish toes, slightly cowhocked, or sickle hocked, and didn't affect her mobility I wouldn't worry about it. In the case of an udder, as long as her calves don't have difficulty with it, then I will also overlook the flaws. If I have to milk her out, or teach the calves where to look then I wouldn't. As for other structural flaws, again it would depend on how severe they are, and what sort of calf she raised. If I can breed her to the type of bulls we buy, and it would correct the flaw then I wouldn't cull her. Depending on the severity of the flaw, I may or may not keep replacements out of her (especially udder and feet/leg flaws)
Avalon
Well-known member
I'm always looking for that phenotypicallly perfect animal. But I can live with flaws. The only things I can not live with:
1. Cows that will not wean a proper size calf. Due to poor milk production.
2. Cows that will not breed back by the second AI effort (in most cases)
3. A herd bull that is so hard doing that I have to spend a ton just to maintain him in the off season.
4. stuctural flaws that limit longevity.
My patience has worn thin on these items. Seems like I still keepem to long.
1. Cows that will not wean a proper size calf. Due to poor milk production.
2. Cows that will not breed back by the second AI effort (in most cases)
3. A herd bull that is so hard doing that I have to spend a ton just to maintain him in the off season.
4. stuctural flaws that limit longevity.
My patience has worn thin on these items. Seems like I still keepem to long.
ALACOWMAN
Well-known member
my idea of the perfect cow has changed alot over the years. thing's i use to let slide, i wont even concider let'in slide now.
ALACOWMAN
Well-known member
like temperment. outlaws were'nt at the top of my cull list. it's nice to walk in the pen now and seperate and not have to crawl the fence.teat trouble i finally got under control. i work on this area most.feet and legs have had some trouble but it kinda culled itself out. the other area's were in good shape i guess thats why i let the thing's i didnt concider important at the time go. but they will come back to bite your ass eventually
The one flaw in herefords that I really pay no attention to is the heavy brisket, or wasty front as some call it. I don't even see it as a fault.
On feet and legs it depends on the situation, if its a commercial cow and her performance or mobility isn't affected it wouldn't really bother me much. If it was a registered cow I cannot tolerate any structural faults.
Udders don't bother me much as long as it doesn't create problems for the calf or work for me.
Hard keepers, poor milkers, weak loins and cows that don't breed back in timely fashion is an immediate cull, no questions asked.
On feet and legs it depends on the situation, if its a commercial cow and her performance or mobility isn't affected it wouldn't really bother me much. If it was a registered cow I cannot tolerate any structural faults.
Udders don't bother me much as long as it doesn't create problems for the calf or work for me.
Hard keepers, poor milkers, weak loins and cows that don't breed back in timely fashion is an immediate cull, no questions asked.
dun":17x9y50x said:
Of these things, feet and legs are things that would get an animal culled. I like to look at pretty cattle as much as anyone, but as long as they're sound and fertile, looks aren't especially important. I'll bet we're not the only operation that has had a cow that had "too much leather up front", "not enough spring of rib" and "pinched heart girth" and somehow, with all that against her,
managed to raise one of the best calves on the place year after year.stocky
Well-known member
Keeping in mind that I sell feeder calves right off the cow, I dont worry about the flaws in the cows, as I expect the bull to take care of those with the calves he throws. Mobility is number 1. If they cant get around, they wont eat and produce enough milk. Temperament is tied for number 1. No cow is worth causing problems. The udder becomes a concern if the calf cant nurse. A blind cow or even a one eyed cow can cause alot of problems when working them. If I can buy a 1 eyed cow cheap enough, I will give her a try. After that it comes down to giving enough milk to raise a huge calf and keeping the condition to breed back on time. I probably am not in the group intended to answer the question, because my goal is not in the conformation of the cow herd. If I were keeping my own replacements, as most of you are, it would be different.
stocky
Well-known member
Not to start an argument over breeds, but to me, with my mixed herd, it starts with a charolais bull. I want to see length, height, and stretch in the bull. I want to see documentation of ease of calving. I want a polled bull. I want a larger scrotum size. I want good disposition. I do not want long ears or a long sheath, that will transfer to the calves. I like a long neck and smaller head as opposed to a short necked, heavy shouldered, big headed bull that I feel will give calving problems. I want a bull that has the potential to weigh a ton, however, I will use him enough while he is young that he doesnt get that big and it will take him 5-7 years to reach 1700-1800 lbs. I dont want him to get too big for my cows or my hills after 1 or 2 breeding seasons. Disposition is huge. If I misjudged his disposition he will still be on the first trailer to town when I find out I made a mistake.
The only problems I have with the black angus are the various shades of black and various body types the calves show out of my mixed cows, the slower growth rate, and the fact that every angus bull I have ever owned crawled through fences and tore them down and roamed from pasture to pasture.
The only problems I have with the black angus are the various shades of black and various body types the calves show out of my mixed cows, the slower growth rate, and the fact that every angus bull I have ever owned crawled through fences and tore them down and roamed from pasture to pasture.
ALACOWMAN
Well-known member
well im just the oppisite the bull is secondary the cow is the backbone of my herd. not that the bull aint important but im about the place with my herd to predict how good the calf will be...no matter how good a bull you use, it takes moma to make his offspring shine
rkm
Well-known member
I guess I was in the dairy business to long. I never liked walking someone through my herd and start making excuses for a broken down cow saying "she may not be much to look at but she does milk". Bad feet and legs or udders really make me cringe. Just me. Now I don't have a perfect herd by any means. But if I have to pick between a looker who weans a 600 lb calf and a slob who weans a 610 lb calf, I'll take the looker every time.
greenwillowhereford II
Well-known member
KNERSIE":25b1e3mp said:
Well said.
