Panera Bread - NO GUNS ALLOWED

[greybeard]

Keep in mind, that no one has ever had a right taken from them in modern times, but many have willingly given them up, only to regret it later.

The liberal congress and administration was going to address gun control reform right after they pushed Healthcare Reform thru. Then, they lost control of the house of representatives. When the theater shooting in Colorado happened, and then Sandy Hook, they thought, even with a GOP house, that the time was right and they could do it, but too many liberal congressmen got flack from their own constituents.
Now, the anti gun people have embarked on a new tack--a different approach. Lobby every business and every individual homeowner they can, to try to get them to put up these "Gun free zone" signs, and eventually, the anti guns wouldn't need legislation or statute law--they would have what they want thru de facto laws, and evidently, it's working.

 

[danl]

I may be wrong but here is my take on it. Panera and other stores are a public business,they are inviting you onto their property. Where as there is no open invitation for someone to come onto my property, therefore I think I have the right to decide if someone can carry on my place or not. Almost my entire family have their ccw permits, so I would never have any visitors if I did that.


I think they open themselves up to being a public place when they hang out the "open for business come on in sign"

 

[skyhightree1]

I may be wrong but here is my take on it. Panera and other stores are a public business,they are inviting you onto their property. Where as there is no open invitation for someone to come onto my property, therefore I think I have the right to decide if someone can carry on my place or not. Almost my entire family have their ccw permits, so I would never have any visitors if I did that.


I think they open themselves up to being a public place when they hang out the "open for business come on in sign"

Danl compare apples to apples family visiting is not the same as john q public so that was a bad example. As a business owner I have an office and do not restrict cc it doesn't matter to me. However, because a business is open to do business with the public does not mean a potential customer can disregard your businesses rules and policies. Businesses still have rights to make decisions as to whom they will do business with and in what manner.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

I don't carry, concealed or otherwise, but if I did I would do so regardless of any posted signs period.

I mean seriously, if you're really that fearful of your personal safety what difference does a posted sign make? The old adage of "I'd rather ask for forgiveness than permission" comes to mind.

 

[M5farm]

I may be wrong but here is my take on it. Panera and other stores are a public business,they are inviting you onto their property. Where as there is no open invitation for someone to come onto my property, therefore I think I have the right to decide if someone can carry on my place or not. Almost my entire family have their ccw permits, so I would never have any visitors if I did that.


I think they open themselves up to being a public place when they hang out the "open for business come on in sign"

Danl compare apples to apples family visiting is not the same as john q public so that was a bad example. As a business owner I have an office and do not restrict cc it doesn't matter to me. However, because a business is open to do business with the public does not mean a potential customer can disregard your businesses rules and policies. Businesses still have rights to make decisions as to whom they will do business with and in what manner.

Just like your barber. If a business post a sign that says no guns allowed you have a choice to obey the sign or CC against their wishes or go somewhere else. It is the individuals choice as to which rule applies to him , I enter places with a loaded gun that clearly have signs posted. I have be invited onto places that I know the owner does not want guns. MY choice and MY decision. If that person decides he does not want me there that is his choice to tell me to leave but he will not tell me to disarm.

 

[TexasBred]

Some of us believe in a very conservative interpretation of the Constitution--some believe in a very liberal interpretation.

So who is correct and how is correctness determined?? When someone gets killed fighting over "who is right"?? When someone decides to exercise their 2nd amendment rights at the expense of my unalienable right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness? Do I ignore you posted signs?? Do I enter your home uninvited?? Even freedom has limits along with great responsibilities. As some have said "your rights end where mine begins".

BTW glad to see you quoting the courts. ;-)

 

[skyhightree1]

Myself personally if I see a no gun welcome sign I do not carry in there and go against someone elses wishes.. I will find another place to go.. IMO thats no different than me having no trespassing signs up and someone does it anyway that is not showing respect for the property nor the property owner(s). :2cents: I hear alot of discussions about not wanting people to disrespect the property they own so on and so forth but find it funny that if someone clearly has posted a rule in how they want to operate their business that so many would disrespect the business owner(s) and carry in there anyway.

 

[danl]

I may be wrong but here is my take on it. Panera and other stores are a public business,they are inviting you onto their property. Where as there is no open invitation for someone to come onto my property, therefore I think I have the right to decide if someone can carry on my place or not. Almost my entire family have their ccw permits, so I would never have any visitors if I did that.


I think they open themselves up to being a public place when they hang out the "open for business come on in sign"

Danl compare apples to apples family visiting is not the same as john q public so that was a bad example. As a business owner I have an office and do not restrict cc it doesn't matter to me. However, because a business is open to do business with the public does not mean a potential customer can disregard your businesses rules and policies. Businesses still have rights to make decisions as to whom they will do business with and in what manner.

I should have left the family part out, I added that at the last minute.
Let me start over...
There is no open invitation onto my property. I don't have a sign out that says "come on in" In fact there are very few people that I want on my place including some family.
A store or business openly invites everyone to come in and I think that makes them a public place. just my opinion.
I have to really need something to go into a posted store, they are few and far in between in our community. Their sign is meaningless in Missouri, unless it is a courtroom, police station, post office. All they can do is ask you to leave, and you really should... Of course no one should have noticed anyway.

 

[M5farm]

Myself personally if I see a no gun welcome sign I do not carry in there and go against someone elses wishes.. I will find another place to go.. IMO thats no different than me having no trespassing signs up and someone does it anyway that is not showing respect for the property nor the property owner(s). :2cents: I hear alot of discussions about not wanting people to disrespect the property they own so on and so forth but find it funny that if someone clearly has posted a rule in how they want to operate their business that so many would disrespect the business owner(s) and carry in there anyway.

your selling apples and oranges now. Posted private property means NO ONE IS ALLOWED. A business that relies on people entering to generate income is completely different. If the sign is written in English and I tell them I speak English but only read Swahili who is right????

 

[danl]

Sometime all you have to do is say something and tell the owner you have an issue with the policy.

When the ccw law first passed in Mo, I went into a branch of a bank the place I work for does a lot of business. There was a sign up. My daughter was still in college and worked there part time.

I went back to my office and called the vp of the bank, and said I could not believe they would have such a policy in our community. He said he didn't even know the signs were up. Five minutes later he called me back and had walked out in their lobby and the signs were there also. He said he would see what he could do.

Twenty minutes later my daughter called and said " who did you talk to, the bank president just called and said get all those signs down and destroy them".

One of my lifes very small victories

 

[skyhightree1]

Myself personally if I see a no gun welcome sign I do not carry in there and go against someone elses wishes.. I will find another place to go.. IMO thats no different than me having no trespassing signs up and someone does it anyway that is not showing respect for the property nor the property owner(s). :2cents: I hear alot of discussions about not wanting people to disrespect the property they own so on and so forth but find it funny that if someone clearly has posted a rule in how they want to operate their business that so many would disrespect the business owner(s) and carry in there anyway.

your selling apples and oranges now. Posted private property means NO ONE IS ALLOWED. A business that relies on people entering to generate income is completely different. If the sign is written in English and I tell them I speak English but only read Swahili who is right????

I am glad you said that m5 " Posted private property means NO ONE IS ALLOWED. " So when a anti-gun sign is up does that mean all guns are welcome on PRIVATE PROPERTY ? I rely on peoples income and it would be my choice to loose that income right?? Because you carry a gun does that mean your rights trump a business owners ?? I mean a clear anti gun sign should tell you I do not want your business if you carry so why even go in there anyway and patronize someone that clearly does not want your business ??

 

[M5farm]

What that sign means to me Is they do not want guns in their establishment and in most cases I will not give them my money But their are times when it is necessary for me to enter. I ignore the sign and do what ever I came to do. When the state posts a speed limit sign on a state owned hwy and you do a wheelie at 80mph are you doing what the state want you to do or are you doing what you want and are willing to pay the consequence if caught???

 

[skyhightree1]

What that sign means to me Is they do not want guns in their establishment and in most cases I will not give them my money But their are times when it is necessary for me to enter. I ignore the sign and do what ever I came to do. When the state posts a speed limit sign on a state owned hwy and you do a wheelie at 80mph are you doing what the state want you to do or are you doing what you want and are willing to pay the consequence if caught???

Difference is im ignoring the law the gov't has set forth. You are ignoring a private parties rights.. Both are wrong in which I never said i didn't break the law. I just have respect for a privately owned businesses rights to run their business the way they want to just as I run mine with the rules I want too as long as it does not go against the laws set forth in the Commonwealth of Virginia. I am just glad that most places interpret the 2nd amendment correctly and it does not trump individual rights. btw I have stopped doing wheelies on public highways. I am hoping that since I have stopped doing that I can be a positive role model for you so you will stop intruding on private business owners rights

 

[Commercialfarmer]

Interesting stuff. If a business owner can demand a private citizen remove their gun before entering their establishment, property, etc... being their rules and all... they should have the same right to demand that everyone remove their shirts, correct? I mean, they just have to put a sign that says, no shirts allowed. Or pants for that matter, it's their rules.


Do these same anti-gun businesses demand that police remove their guns before entering? It's private property and all. Contemplate that before you answer it.

 

[M5farm]

What that sign means to me Is they do not want guns in their establishment and in most cases I will not give them my money But their are times when it is necessary for me to enter. I ignore the sign and do what ever I came to do. When the state posts a speed limit sign on a state owned hwy and you do a wheelie at 80mph are you doing what the state want you to do or are you doing what you want and are willing to pay the consequence if caught???

Difference is im ignoring the law the gov't has set forth. You are ignoring a private parties rights.. Both are wrong in which I never said i didn't break the law. I just have respect for a privately owned businesses rights to run their business the way they want to just as I run mine with the rules I want too as long as it does not go against the laws set forth in the Commonwealth of Virginia. I am just glad that most places interpret the 2nd amendment correctly and it does not trump individual rights. btw I have stopped doing wheelies on public highways. I am hoping that since I have stopped doing that I can be a positive role model for you so you will stop intruding on private business owners rights

While I respect that you are reformed stunt man I however am not and will continue to carry into every place that my license allows. And as long as my Gun is on my side It is a part of my person and no business is going discriminate against me. All they can do is ask me to leave as I have not broken any laws.

 

[skyhightree1]

Interesting stuff. If a business owner can demand a private citizen remove their gun before entering their establishment, property, etc... being their rules and all... they should have the same right to demand that everyone remove their shirts, correct? I mean, they just have to put a sign that says, no shirts allowed. Or pants for that matter, it's their rules.


Do these same anti-gun businesses demand that police remove their guns before entering? It's private property and all. Contemplate that before you answer it.

Give me a legit question I will answer anything. HMMM..... I can't answer the question on a private business owner demanding a private citizen to remove their gun because thats not what the post was about. However, A business owner telling you what they allow in their business is a different story. Demanding you to remove your gun and telling you what they do not allow on their property is 2 whole different things.... Or atleast in my simple minded skooolin. I can't understand why you use the word demand so much. I personally do not know about demanding or them asking police officers to remove their weapons but from what I have seen and read no they do not have a problem with certified law enforcement carrying weapons on their property. I am sure the next question is why are law enforcement allowed and not john q public..... Tons of reasons to pick a few.. They trust law enforcements judgement/ Know law enforcement have had training etc. Again I am putting myself in business owners shoes to answer your question.

 

[dieselbeef]

they call it concealed for a reason kids

 

[skyhightree1]

My states stance on carrying on restricted places

The granting of a concealed handgun permit pursuant to this article shall not thereby authorize the possession of any handgun or other weapon on property or in places where such possession is otherwise prohibited by law or is prohibited by the owner of private property.

 

[Commercialfarmer]

Interesting stuff. If a business owner can demand a private citizen remove their gun before entering their establishment, property, etc... being their rules and all... they should have the same right to demand that everyone remove their shirts, correct? I mean, they just have to put a sign that says, no shirts allowed. Or pants for that matter, it's their rules.


Do these same anti-gun businesses demand that police remove their guns before entering? It's private property and all. Contemplate that before you answer it.

Give me a legit question I will answer anything. HMMM..... I can't answer the question on a private business owner demanding a private citizen to remove their gun because thats not what the post was about. However, A business owner telling you what they allow in their business is a different story. Demanding you to remove your gun and telling you what they do not allow on their property is 2 whole different things.... Or atleast in my simple minded skooolin. I can't understand why you use the word demand so much. I personally do not know about demanding or them asking police officers to remove their weapons but from what I have seen and read no they do not have a problem with certified law enforcement carrying weapons on their property. I am sure the next question is why are law enforcement allowed and not john q public..... Tons of reasons to pick a few.. They trust law enforcements judgement/ Know law enforcement have had training etc. Again I am putting myself in business owners shoes to answer your question.

Because you can't answer something and stay consistent in your line of thought does not make it a non legitimate question.

To add to your schooling. ;-)

de·mand
diˈmand/
noun
noun: demand; plural noun: demands

1.
an insistent and peremptory request, made as if by right.

i.e. putting up a sign that says, no guns allowed.

 

[M5farm]

My states stance on carrying on restricted places

The granting of a concealed handgun permit pursuant to this article shall not thereby authorize the possession of any handgun or other weapon on property or in places where such possession is otherwise prohibited by law or is prohibited by the owner of private property.

The owner of pp can only ask you to leave it is not against the law. And unless you search the individual you do not know if they are armed or not.